Another "Shelf Life" Post

That's due to different factors. One is that according to Hodgdon, IMR changed processes about 2010 or so and will no longer make the IMR powders by the original process. There was also a formulation problem, the European Union having banned some of the traditional chemistry as carcinogenic, the dibutyl phthalate deterrent, in particular, so they may have changed the chemistry for compatibility with NATO. No details were given, and the proprietary nature of some processes means they may never be available if they weren't specified by the military. The bottom line is that what we get now is as close to the original IMR powders as the new process and formulation practices can produce.

Another factor is that a lot of old load data was developed in production guns by commercial bullet makers by watching for pressure signs, and a lot of that old data has turned out to produce pressures exceeding SAAMI's values when fired in the minimum chamber pressure test guns. Pressure-tested Lyman data was an exception, but Speer and Hornady and others had some pretty hot data in the old books. If you look at recent photos of Hornady's plant, you can now see what appear to be strain gauges mounted on their test guns. Strain gauges produce results at least as repeatable as the piezo transducers used in the SAAMI standard but are a lot less expensive. Nobody trusts the old pressure signs anymore.

Still another thing that has changed is that while the SAAMI standard only requires pressure peak reading instrumentation, in this day and age of high speed data acquisition, most industry people who use test barrels have software that produces a full trace of the pressure curve on a computer screen. That is not something that could be done with crushers. I've heard this practice has revealed some anomalies with certain combinations of components causing some to be dropped.
 
That's due to different factors. One is that according to Hodgdon, IMR changed processes about 2010

*Ed Harris said that he could tell a difference when powder production moved from DuPont in the US to "IMR" in Canada in 1976.

Another factor is that a lot of old load data was developed in production guns by commercial bullet makers by watching for pressure signs,

*Right, most of the old manuals show what common firearm was used.

Strain gauges produce results at least as repeatable as the piezo transducers used in the SAAMI standard but are a lot less expensive. Nobody trusts the old pressure signs anymore.

*I didn't know anybody in the industry was using strain gauges. They would have to be calibrated against reference ammunition, but so does a pizeo transducer.

Still another thing that has changed is that while the SAAMI standard only requires pressure peak reading instrumentation, in this day and age of high speed data acquisition, most industry people who use test barrels have software that produces a full trace of the pressure curve on a computer screen. That is not something that could be done with crushers. I've heard this practice has revealed some anomalies with certain combinations of components causing some to be dropped.

*I have seen such graphs. Somebody had a pressure profile he called a "camel hump" and recommended against that load.

*No 30
 
Anyway, you can end up with a new lot of canister-grade powder that some portion of which is getting old. Since breakdown is initiated by whatever part of the powder mass goes bad first, this can pre-age your lot and cost you storage life expectancy.

Sorry didn't see you addressed me specifically until today .

That was my point when I was trying to figure out how they come up with a 10yr warranty/shelf life .

I totally understand the blending and keeping old stock/lots for such purposes . Just making up numbers here so lets say the manufacturer has a pretty good idea there "new" lot/s of powder have a shelf life of 40yrs . I wouldn't think for a second they would mix a 30 or 35 year old lot they held back to a new lot to get the correct burn rate . Meaning if they expect any given lot to last 40yrs I would think they'd stop blending it at about the 20year old mark giving the "new" mixed lot an expected 20 year shelf life and slapping a 10year warranty on it leaving a 10yr cushion .

That was all my point was and how I was thinking it through . I would find it incredibly irresponsible if any manufacturer sold any powder of any type , blended or not that contains any elements of it's contents close to there end of life expectancy as new .
 
Awright, here's another.

The powder mill allows a tolerance in burn rate of say 4%.

OK, what is "burn rate?" There are plenty of charts showing burning order, but they are not quantitative. How is burn rate measured for QA?
 
What the powder manufacturers measure as burn rate for blending or for specifying a powder and what you find on relative burn rate charts are two different things. The manufacturers' measure has been done several ways, with closed bombs, Strand burners, deduction of burn rate from vivacity bomb results, or igniting a standard quantity of powder with a standard quantity of PETN over a water pool. The end results in each case is a burn rate in inches or meters per second for a fixed quantity of powder under a fixed set of pressure conditions. You can read about some of these here and some other methods here.

The results of the above testing are not usually published. Part of the reason is it would mislead the handloader to think he had a number for helping determine a powder charge, but he wouldn't. The reason is that powder characteristics other than just the burn rate affect the pressure it produces. These include the total chemical energy content of the powder and the temperature at which it burns, the ratio of specific heat, its relative progressivity, etc.

An attempt to get all those factors collected under one roof is the relative burn rate. This is what you get in a powder chart. It is based on pretending all powder factors except the burn rate are equal between different powders. The way it works is described in the 2013 Norma manual on page 89, where a relative burn rate chart developed by Bofors is provided. They selected a single cartridge and bullet and primer. They pick a charge weight based on a powder they call the reference. They then load the same charge weight for all the powders they will test into that same cartridge under that same bullet, and what they call the relative burn rate is then just the order of the peak pressures produced.
 
Interesting. Fine details are over my head but it looks like those chaps on the Subcontinent described some methods that would be prompt enough to use for grading a mass produced material almost on the fly or certainly soon enough after a production run to be of use.
 
I spent 15 years being certified in the AMU (Aqueous Make Up) processes used in a spent nuclear fuel reprocessing plant.

Not identical to smokeless powder manufacture (though a few of the same chemicals were used) but it taught me the basics of industrial chemical make up and certain things are generally common to all of them.

One of them we called "butting". Someone else might call it "blending". Basically, you made up the batch, following the instructions x amount of this, y amount of that, xyz amount of something else, etc. THOROUGHLY mixed so you got a representative sample.

Sample analyzed against lab standard specs. IF your batch was out of spec in some way, you calculated the proper amount of which material you needed to add to "butt" the mixture back into spec.

Added the "butt" the resampled. Sometimes you might butt a tank several times, and sometimes you never did get it right and the whole thing became waste. Where I was doing it, we wound up having to waste more due to time pressure, because what we were making up had to be both right, chemically, and on time to feed a continuous process, and sometimes, we had to "sewer it" (special chem sewer) in order to have the time to re do it, and get it right so we didn't have to shut down the entire plant process.

A powder maker generally, isn't under that kind of time pressure, so, if they have the storage space, they can keep an out of spec batch and keep butting it until they do get it in spec.
 
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