ANOTHER question about safe storage... Sorry. Surface Rust?
- Thread starter Venom1956
- Start date
The firearms are in the safe due to children, correct? And the guns rust in the safe for whatever reason?
Why is the only answer a safe? Is there some rule in the house that says the only acceptable course is to secure the guns in a safe?
I do not mean toss the guns in a sock drawer, BTW. But there are other ways to make sure kids cannot use touch, or even see those guns, if a safe was not involved.
Barring determined and destructive actions by the children, a gun cabinet in a locked closet, or even just a gun cabinet will do the trick for example. Keep the keys to it in the safe. I do not want to advertsie what I do at my place, but suffice to say even if the lock on the container the guns are in would be defeated, trigger locks are still on every firearm in the container, and no keys are around. My place could be lousy with children and there would be no issue
This is not as effective as the safe is against burglary, I admit, but a gun cabinet would address some humidity issues
Why is the only answer a safe? Is there some rule in the house that says the only acceptable course is to secure the guns in a safe?
I do not mean toss the guns in a sock drawer, BTW. But there are other ways to make sure kids cannot use touch, or even see those guns, if a safe was not involved.
Barring determined and destructive actions by the children, a gun cabinet in a locked closet, or even just a gun cabinet will do the trick for example. Keep the keys to it in the safe. I do not want to advertsie what I do at my place, but suffice to say even if the lock on the container the guns are in would be defeated, trigger locks are still on every firearm in the container, and no keys are around. My place could be lousy with children and there would be no issue
This is not as effective as the safe is against burglary, I admit, but a gun cabinet would address some humidity issues
Chris, Have you tried a Goldenrod? It is cheap and a must for every safe.
http://www.goldenroddehumidifiers.com/
http://www.goldenroddehumidifiers.com/
Venom,
As others have said, it sounds like you're trying to use a Sentry document safe for your firearms. As you've discovered, this can cause problems due to the humidity from the moisture-content of the insulation material. You'll usually find plastic "plugs" on the walls inside the safe. These are intended to release steam as fire heats up the exterior and the moisture helps protect documents from the fire. Sealing these over with silicone sealant may reduce the ambient humidity inside the safe.
To help protect against the ambient moisture and condensation (usually caused by opening a cool, dry safe environment to warmer, moister household air), try using a VCI product to help control the corrosion. Using a VCI barrier bag ("blue bag") might help, but only if you close it up outside the safe to prevent moisture from being trapped inside.
But you should really find a safe better suited for storing firearms.
Some Possible Solutions
I don't have your moisture problem, however I store my handguns inside silicone-impregnated Bore Stores and add a VCI card and keep a VCI emitter (shotgun shell sized) inside the safe. This seems to work the best.
Rust Removal
To remove light rust, rust spots and rust speckles, you should use a good penetrating oil, such as Kano's Kroil. For light "brown" rust, soak an old rag in Kroil and wrap it around the gun for 10 minutes. Then use the rag to loosen the rust with a light rubbing action. You can "rinse" the gun with spray oil like Rem Oil or WD-40, then wipe down and relubricate the gun.
If rough rust spots form, use a copper (not copper-colored stainless steel!) Chore-boy potscrubber pad with light pressure to remove the rust spot. The copper Chore-Boy will not hurt the bluing. A copper or brass brush can be used but care must be taken to avoid too much pressure that could abrade the bluing.
As others have said, it sounds like you're trying to use a Sentry document safe for your firearms. As you've discovered, this can cause problems due to the humidity from the moisture-content of the insulation material. You'll usually find plastic "plugs" on the walls inside the safe. These are intended to release steam as fire heats up the exterior and the moisture helps protect documents from the fire. Sealing these over with silicone sealant may reduce the ambient humidity inside the safe.
To help protect against the ambient moisture and condensation (usually caused by opening a cool, dry safe environment to warmer, moister household air), try using a VCI product to help control the corrosion. Using a VCI barrier bag ("blue bag") might help, but only if you close it up outside the safe to prevent moisture from being trapped inside.
But you should really find a safe better suited for storing firearms.
Some Possible Solutions
I don't have your moisture problem, however I store my handguns inside silicone-impregnated Bore Stores and add a VCI card and keep a VCI emitter (shotgun shell sized) inside the safe. This seems to work the best.
Rust Removal
To remove light rust, rust spots and rust speckles, you should use a good penetrating oil, such as Kano's Kroil. For light "brown" rust, soak an old rag in Kroil and wrap it around the gun for 10 minutes. Then use the rag to loosen the rust with a light rubbing action. You can "rinse" the gun with spray oil like Rem Oil or WD-40, then wipe down and relubricate the gun.
If rough rust spots form, use a copper (not copper-colored stainless steel!) Chore-boy potscrubber pad with light pressure to remove the rust spot. The copper Chore-Boy will not hurt the bluing. A copper or brass brush can be used but care must be taken to avoid too much pressure that could abrade the bluing.
To remove the rust rub gently with 0000 (four zero) steel wool and PLENTY of oil. It will NOT leave bits behind to rust if you wipe it off with a rag. At least it hasn't on the several hundred guns I've used it on so far.
To keep rust from forming, use Breakfree COLLECTOR (not regular breakfree) oil. Another good alternative is LPS3.
http://www.break-free.com/?location=/products/index.asp
http://www.lpslabs.com/product_pg/corrosion_pg/lps3.html
I would confirm that you have a safe that is intended for guns.
To keep rust from forming, use Breakfree COLLECTOR (not regular breakfree) oil. Another good alternative is LPS3.
http://www.break-free.com/?location=/products/index.asp
http://www.lpslabs.com/product_pg/corrosion_pg/lps3.html
I would confirm that you have a safe that is intended for guns.
It is mainly there for burglary, children and that I tend to not be able to check on them for weeks at a time.
Not so much my siblings but some of their stupid nosy friends. Long story...
I am slowly working on this problem I've been burnt out from work so haven't made much headway...
I'll try and keep you all updated.I bought the safe at a sporting goods store it came with the 'shelf' to hold rifles do the document safes ship with those? Just curious.
Venom - is this an upright safe that stands between 52-59" tall? (4-5 ft tall)?
See if you can identify it on this page.
Other thoughts... since you have a golden rod in use, how airtight is the opening for the electrical cord? Are there any other holes in the cabinet beside the anchor holes and power cord? I'm wondering if moisture might be creeping up from the basement floor around the bolts holes. putting a neoprene covering over the holes might help if that's the case.¹
Otherwise, it has to be something inside the safe or a large difference between the humidity inside and outside of the safe when you open it (allowing humid air inside).
¹ If moisture is coming from underneath and you really can't move the safe, consider elevating it by about ½-inch. Loosen or remove the anchor bolts and use wedges to lift the safe. Slide in 1" x ½" wood strips or half-rounds to raise the safe. Trim to size around the edges and then use the bolts to re-anchor the safe. This should allow enough airflow to dissipate any humidity from underneath the safe.
Well my 'temp' solution with the dehumidifer right outside the safe is working quite well! 
I am currently inside the safe the high 80's (85 or above) with about 35% humidity levels! no need for silica gel or my golden rod really... Thats not to dry or hot? Don't want my wood stocks to crack or dry out.
Simplest solutions are often the best?
I think ill keep it this way for the time being see what happens.
Any questions or comments?
I am currently inside the safe the high 80's (85 or above) with about 35% humidity levels! no need for silica gel or my golden rod really... Thats not to dry or hot? Don't want my wood stocks to crack or dry out.
Simplest solutions are often the best?
I think ill keep it this way for the time being see what happens.
Any questions or comments?
inSight-NEO
New member
Have you ever considered Weapon Shield? I use this on all of my weapons and have yet to encounter a spot of rust...some of which remain untouched (in a dessicant equipped safe) for months on end.
Also, if you do not fire your weapons much or are having a particular problem with a certain weapon, you may consider using a "vapor" type preservation bag (I recommend ZCorr bags). I keep many of my "occasional" shooters in these bags, without oil of any kind, and even after 8+ months, have not encountered rusting issues.
Supposedly, these bags remain effective for 2 years, give or take (depending on how often they are opened). Either way, this is no gimmick. I have stored shotguns, various semi-automatics and revolvers in these bags (for extensive periods...again, many which have no oil on them) and much to my surprise, have not experienced any rusting.
Here is a link, if interested:
http://www.zcorrproducts.com/
Now, if we are dealing with a regular use weapon, again, I would suggest trying Weapon Shield. This is another product I have had great results with...particularly concerning any guns I have stored in a safe.
Also, if you do not fire your weapons much or are having a particular problem with a certain weapon, you may consider using a "vapor" type preservation bag (I recommend ZCorr bags). I keep many of my "occasional" shooters in these bags, without oil of any kind, and even after 8+ months, have not encountered rusting issues.
Supposedly, these bags remain effective for 2 years, give or take (depending on how often they are opened). Either way, this is no gimmick. I have stored shotguns, various semi-automatics and revolvers in these bags (for extensive periods...again, many which have no oil on them) and much to my surprise, have not experienced any rusting.
Here is a link, if interested:
http://www.zcorrproducts.com/
Now, if we are dealing with a regular use weapon, again, I would suggest trying Weapon Shield. This is another product I have had great results with...particularly concerning any guns I have stored in a safe.
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Clean your guns in the normal manner, take the normal precautions with moisture in your safe and throw in a VpCI emitter.
Here's a very good one. Two sites. Same product.
http://www.rustbloc.com/
http://www.bull-frog.com/products/
Here's a very good one. Two sites. Same product.
http://www.rustbloc.com/
http://www.bull-frog.com/products/
GeekWithAGun
New member
Your temporary solution seems to be working, so why fix what's not broken right?
Two things I might bring up though:
1. Given the information on the Sentry Safe that others have provided, is it possible for you to get two humidity sensors (one for inside and one for outside the safe) in order to see if the humidity is coming from the safe? It may not be 100% conclusive, but I would say that an outside humidity of ~30% compared to an inside humidity of ~80% would indicate that the humidity is coming from the safe.
2. If you can't take your firearms with you to school, is it possible to just "disable" them and have them in an only "mostly secured area"? ie: take a firing pin out, or a barrel from an auto loader/cylinder from a revolver, and leave the firearm in your parent's bedroom or otherwise away from the younger children.
Maybe not the best solutions, but possibly a start?
Two things I might bring up though:1. Given the information on the Sentry Safe that others have provided, is it possible for you to get two humidity sensors (one for inside and one for outside the safe) in order to see if the humidity is coming from the safe? It may not be 100% conclusive, but I would say that an outside humidity of ~30% compared to an inside humidity of ~80% would indicate that the humidity is coming from the safe.
2. If you can't take your firearms with you to school, is it possible to just "disable" them and have them in an only "mostly secured area"? ie: take a firing pin out, or a barrel from an auto loader/cylinder from a revolver, and leave the firearm in your parent's bedroom or otherwise away from the younger children.
Maybe not the best solutions, but possibly a start?
longranger
New member
When you are done cleaning the gun use a very absobent cloth pick up all remaining solvent.Then Wax your guns with good quality caraunuba wax.Stop oiling your guns and waxing them instead,it will eliminate your rust problem.
Wall Mart sells cloth baby diapers,best product for wiping guns down and removing wax.
Wax is used by museums to preserve historical guns, they use what is called Rennisance Wax it is just high quality wax,wood instument wax is what I use since I have as many guitars as guns.I have not tried the spray on wax I like to work it in,I do chambers and bore as well.You will see a big difference in how clean and dry your guns will be.I do all of my guns rifles and handguns.It makes for much easier clean up after shooting.The wax coat will last about 2 cleanings before being stripped off by the solvent.
Wood stocks/grips get pulled every cleaning I do not like solvent saturating the wood.Use Howards Wax N Feed for anything wood best stuff on earth for wood,nothing better.
S.S. guns are easier to get bright and shiney with Flitz one treatment(Tx) on a blue gun that a compromised finish can look pretty good after a Tx of Flitz and a coat of wax.You will no longer have those rainbow colors on your finish.You Flitz very gently one time on blue guns that have finish issues, it will remove bluing.
Wall Mart sells cloth baby diapers,best product for wiping guns down and removing wax.
Wax is used by museums to preserve historical guns, they use what is called Rennisance Wax it is just high quality wax,wood instument wax is what I use since I have as many guitars as guns.I have not tried the spray on wax I like to work it in,I do chambers and bore as well.You will see a big difference in how clean and dry your guns will be.I do all of my guns rifles and handguns.It makes for much easier clean up after shooting.The wax coat will last about 2 cleanings before being stripped off by the solvent.
Wood stocks/grips get pulled every cleaning I do not like solvent saturating the wood.Use Howards Wax N Feed for anything wood best stuff on earth for wood,nothing better.
S.S. guns are easier to get bright and shiney with Flitz one treatment(Tx) on a blue gun that a compromised finish can look pretty good after a Tx of Flitz and a coat of wax.You will no longer have those rainbow colors on your finish.You Flitz very gently one time on blue guns that have finish issues, it will remove bluing.