Another Open Carry arrest lawsuit

[Jim March]

Glenn? Ummm...I have to ask...what are you talking about?

Let us NOT descend into cop bashing. Nor is it appropriate to say a particular individual committed a felony against a person.

It's right there in the video. What would happen if any of us pointed a gun at somebody because they had a holstered sidearm with no obvious criminal intent? We would be arrested for felony assault as we should be if we did that.

It is NOT a radical position to say that cops have no right to attack people who have committed no crime. They don't. Pointing a gun at somebody is an attack with lethal force - period, full stop.

In many states law enforcement has a de-facto "right" to commit false arrest, via laws that block people from resisting even obviously false arrest. Many law enforcement officers try to extrapolate that into a right to commit false assault. Not so.

The "detainee" in the video we see in this case had the right to defend against a violent assault by law enforcement.

This is not an "edgy" opinion. It is plain fact verified by video plus the 911 audio.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Glenn? Ummm...I have to ask...what are you talking about?

As here clearly stated, he talking about deleted posts that are no longer visible.

The "detainee" in the video we see in this case had the right to defend against a violent assault by law enforcement.

This is not an "edgy" opinion. It is plain fact verified by video plus the 911 audio.

And if he had? He'd be dead. I bet his family would be happy that he was "right", though.

 

[Jim March]

And if he had? He'd be dead.

In this incident? Sure. But what if the assaulted party had been a member of a group who are also armed and the criminal with a badge didn't realize it?

If enough of these cases happen in this fashion, eventually somebody is going to die. The best thing we can do is complain about it often enough and loudly enough that the message goes out to "law enforcement" before it gets to that point.

Ignoring the problem won't make it go away.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Frankly, this guy handled it perfectly. There's no reason for anybody to die. $600,000 will get the attention of law enforcement. Nobody is ignoring anything.

Suggesting that a lethal response to this kind of situation would be appropriate is unimaginable to me. Nothing good could have possibly come out of it. People would be dead and it wouldn't be the police that most people would be blaming. That kind of nonsense would set back gun rights decades and probably irreparably.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Please explain how it is that LE has good reason to dislike the Constitution they ALL swore to uphold?

You mean 2A I take it since the Constitution covers many things.Actually I was referring to Michigan open carry law. It is no secret that some LE don't like 2A though from my experience most LE acknowledge gun rights and treat it fairly IME.

A good friend of mine was LE for years. Through him and others I have made many acquaintance's in LE. Even related to a Tenn. State Trooper. They have provided me with their views as well as co-workers. The largest concern that I have heard from those who don't like citizens carrying is because they don't trust their ability to not accidently shoot someone or do so when they shouldn't have. Most I have talked to attribute it to what they see as a lack of training, even the ones that support carry laws fully. For the most part their are concerns with safety and encounters with legally armed citizens, again FME. For many people here on TFL we have seen video or encountered personally LE while exercising our rights. Some of the videos posted here show LE getting it exactly right and some wrong. Then there are these where some may feel LE was still in the right. I still have the opinion that it was wrong here in this case. I also respect any opposing views to mine.

Please explain what's not to like about honest, law-abiding citizens having the means to defend themselves against the criminals the police are powerless to protect us against?

You lost me there, I don't recall saying that or suggesting that? Must be a misunderstanding some how.

Just for the record: I am and always have been %100 percent for 2A. I also don't like the government trying to constrict, forbid, deny, or control it more than it already is. In fact there is plenty of controlling legislation that needs repealed.

 

[Jim March]

Suggesting that a lethal response to this kind of situation would be appropriate is unimaginable to me.

In this case? You are correct. But...let's look at others.

We had a questionable shooting in Miami in which one of the officers, immediately after the shooting of a carload of suspects, pointed a gun at somebody who recorded the whole thing with a cellphone. The officer then handcuffed the cameraman and smashed his cellphone.

The only reason we have the video evidence of this assault by law enforcement is because the victim, while cuffed, scooted over to the wreckage of his phone, slipped the MicroUSB memory card out of it, laid it on the ground, turned around and picked up said memory card with his mouth. He held that card between cheek and gum for the entire booking process right up to bailing out. Because of that evidence all charges were dropped when the video showed up in the local news (and then Carlos Miller's website, inevitably).

Now...do you see yet how this is the same class of problem? Law enforcement officers assuming they can attack people at will? Doesn't matter who they are attacking or why.

If I saw a cop gun down people in a car who had no visible weapons, and then point a gun at somebody who was merely a bystander with a camera nowhere near enough to be a threat, would I be in fear that that person with the camera is in fear of losing their life or suffering great bodily injury from criminal attack?

Yes. No question.

Again: what I'm telling you is that this tendency among US law enforcement to assume they can assault people at will is eventually going to get somebody dead if it isn't stopped. That is not a radical position, it's not crazy, it's hard fact. Law enforcement today believes they can attack people for doing things they personally don't like: open carrying, pointing a camera, being gay in the wrong town, numerous other cases I can cite.

It has to end.

 

[DT Guy]

What would you do if you walked out of the house and found a man pointing a weapon at your unarmed spouse or child?

Now imagine that person is wearing a blue uniform-do you suddenly feel 'OK' with that same situation?

I don't, and I strongly feel that those who do have lost track of what it truly means to be a 'citizen' in a republic.

Larry

 

[Tom Servo]

Unfortunately, we're skating around the same broad generalizations staff warned about on the prior page. Let's call it a night on this one.