Another ammo thread! (sorry!!) Snubbies

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Pond James Pond

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SD ammo: which one?
The conventional answer will typically be hollow-point this or hollow-point that. However, as some may remember, I am not living in the States and over here h-p's are illegal.

The gun in question is a 2" snub .38spl (not +p). The types of brands over here are Sellier and Bellot, Fiocchi, Barnaul, Magtech etc.

Previously, I have asked about 9mm Luger. However, that is a faster & more powerful so I'm not sure the suggestions in that thread may necessarily offer the best choice for .38Spl.

My limited, but budgeoning understanding of ammo suggests that I should take advantage of the lower speed of the .38Spl round by whacking a heavier bullet on it. Heavy and slow, and all that....

So, based on that, looking at the brands I can get, I could get Fiocchi 158gr LRN, at 271 ft/lbs and 880ft/sec, or the FMJ 158 at 186, 730 respectively. Magtech do a 158gr LRN, pushed by 200ft/lbs, and 755 ft/sec.

Is this flawed logic?

However, I notice that the Fiocchi LRN has a muzzle energy that sits very close to their +p round (284 ft/lbs), and I don't want to damage my snubbie. If this is a bad idea, Remington (assuming I can find them) seem to have a more tempered 158gr, LRN or SWC.

Would this put my little revolver at risk?
Am I barking up the wrong tree?
PS: remember, no HPs!!
 
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Can you reload? If so, I'd suggest using double ended wad cutters or semi-wadcutters, loaded to +P pressures. The flat face is better for cutting a full caliber wound channel, and less likely to glance off bone. You can get factory wadcutter ammo, but it tends to be downloaded for target shooting.
 
I agree that wadcutters or semi-wadcutters would be the best bet for non-hollowpoint 38spl ammo. Magtech makes both (148gr wadcutter=38B, 158gr semi-WC=38J) that seem to be decent enough. I've done some target shooting of the semi-wadcutter round (158 gr @755fps) in a non +P revolver and they performed well enough as far as ignition, accuracy, and extraction. Remember that since you're not using any energy to expand the round to any significant degree, an extra 50-100fps really isn't gonna make a huge difference in terminal performance. From what I've seen online, a 148gr wadcutter or 158gr semi-wadcutter moving 650-750fps at the muzzle should still penetrate between 14 and 16+ inches of ballistics gel. I'd definitely prefer a hollow point, but if I was in a place where they aren't legal, these loads or something similar from another brand seem like the next best thing.
 
I can't reload....yet. Hoping to get into that.
Also for legal reasons, any ammo I load the gun with, for SD purposes would have to be factory. I also want to stay away from +p ammo.

My snubbie is an Astra 680, a Spanish S&W copy, of unknown age and use.

It is nice, tight, but I still don't think it is built to tolerate repeated +P detonations, hence just standard pressures, and middle of the road, at that.

I'll start by investigating the SWCs at middling pressures.
 
I don't know about Fiocchi, but S&B makes a .38 Spl loading with a 148gr HBWC which would be my choice were I in your shoes. Velocity is necessary with expanding bullets, but not so much with non-expanding ones. A full wadcutter will be very accurate and mild recoiling and, with its full diameter meplat and sharp shoulders, cause a bit more tissue damage than a bullet with a round nose or smaller meplat. Also, the lead used in most wadcutter loadings is soft enough that you often still get some moderate expansion even though the bullet was not specifically designed to expand.

If, for some reason, you cannot get wadcutters, the S&B FMJ would be my second choice as I know that they at least have a flat nose which, with a non-expanding bullet, is preferable to a round nose.
 
Actually they do!

My preferred stockist sells also Fiocchi in .38 S&W Spl, .38 Wad cutter, .38 Spl Golden Target, and .38 Spl Top Defence.

The WC is 148gr, the Top Defence FNFMJ is a 110gr. I imagine that .38 and .38 Spl are the same calibre, in this case...

I'll need to check what they have in the way of S&B rounds too!! But a box of WC and another of the FNFMJ might be a good way to check on the guns operation, aim and the best round for recoil and accuracy!!
 
I ran into the same issue when I lived in NJ, thank god i moved. The rule, as explained by a gun store owner, there was no "flat tip" ammo. But as long as the bullet was round it was approved.

I did read you post on saw the brands at your disposal but if you can get your hands on some or order it, AND it's approved look into CORBON. They make the Powerball which has a polymer bal insert .38 100gr +P. If this doesn't work the WC or Soft led should do teh job.
 
Another school of thought is the 200 grain round nose lead.
It is unstable and tumbles making it perform more like a .45.

The UK did this for .38 S&W topbreak Enfields in WW2.

They used to call it the Super Police.

http://www.reedsammo.com/
these guys have made me some, it's a great snubby load
 
I suspect that the 148gr wadcutter will shoot closer to the sights of your revolver than the 110gr FMJ will. The standard bullet weight for .38 Special is 158gr and as such most so-chambered revolvers have their sights regulated at the factory for that weight. Obviously, a revolver with adjustable sights can be accommodated to any bullet weight you desire (within reason of course as your sights only have so much adjustment) but a fixed-sight revolver will likely shoot low with bullets lighter than what the sights are regulated for. Because 148gr is only 10gr lighter than standard, the change in POI would likely be very small but because 110gr is 48gr lighter the change in POI will probably be several inches/centimeters if not more at a range greater than a few yards/meters.
 
If you can find it some Federal Nyclad (sp) standard pressure should work well.
Click to expand...

The OP is located in Europe and, according to him, hollowpoint ammunition is both illegal and generally unavailable in his locale. While Nyclads may be fine defensive ammo, they are hollowpoints and thus not an option for the OP.
 
If you don't reload, I would recomend going to Buffalo Bores site and ordering their 150 gr cast wadcutter. This round is made for short barrel revolvers. And its a standard pressure round. Out of a 2 inch barrel the velocity will be 850 fps. Wadcutters punch good holes and have good penatration.
Good luck,
Howard
 
Went to the shop today and...

Their Fiocchi choice was limited. Only FMJ.

However, their S&B stock was better.
They had WC, LRN, FMJ (which is Flat Nosed) and they had SP (same profile as the flat nosed FMJ, just with a lead tip).

All were 158gr, except for the WC that was 148.

There was support on here for the WC, and the flat-nosed FMJ. If the SP has the same profile as the FMJ, but better expansion, should that not be a vialbe option?
 
SP would be, at worst, about the same as the FMJFP. That being said, I wouldn't count on much, if any, expansion from the JSP loading particularly when it's running at .38 Spl velocity (JSP ammo doesn't even work all that well against erect bipeds from a .357 Magnum).

I still think that the WC would be the best choice because it has the widest, flattest nose and will create the largest wound channel due to its profile.
 
The .38 Special Soft Point will probably not expand or upset to a significant degree, but it will penetrate less and cause less damage. The 158-gr. LRN .38 Special load is awful, it combines the worst of all loads: low velocity, no expansion, a tendency to push flesh aside instead of causing serious injury. It produces wounds like an ice pick or screwdriver.

The .38 148-gr. wadcutter would be the load of choice, I think. It penetrates deeply, which is key, and you don't have any expanding ammo choices, so...
 
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