Aguila Blanca
Staff
This one? http://ezine.m1911.org/showthread.php?196-Thompson-TC-Reviewsalvadore said:
Another 1911 Thread
- Thread starter ycastane
- Start date
Hunter0924
New member
Another vote for Colt, look at the XSE or Combat Elite.
claydoctor
New member
Shopping carefully, one could buy a Wiley Clapp Colt in that price range.
Tucker 1371
New member
Definitely go Colt, in terms of value for a 1911 it's hard to beat in a standard production gun. Dan Wessons are probably significantly better but typically run $400 or so more in retail. I've also heard good things about STIs but never had a chance to get my hands on one. I've owned a Colt for about 3 years now and the only problems I've had out of it we're caused by weak magazine springs on some Wilson's Combat mags I had had for years.
Aguila, according to your post the Kimber Pro Carry II i was just given by my buddy does not have a lot of worth and "i would sell it immediately". The pistol is a really nice shooter, well made and functions flawlessly. Think i will ignore your evaluation and hang onto this little pistol, if for no other reason than to thank the generosity of a friend as well as adding a quality pistol to the bunch.
For a really nice pistol the R1 in stainless is well made and a heck of a nice shooter for a not to expensive price.
For a really nice pistol the R1 in stainless is well made and a heck of a nice shooter for a not to expensive price.
Come on people, don't be silly. A $1200 kimber will be just as good as old colt, if not better. Questioning kimber's parts is outdated now. Kimber has achieved alot recently. Never had a problem with kimber 3inch and 4 inche. Trust me and I am not even a kimber lover. I am a les baer lover. If I was op, I will throw in another $500 to get a les baer. 
Theohazard
New member
Colt is better than Kimber, hands down. Kimber has done a brilliant job of marketing over the years, and they've managed to convince most casual gun owners that Kimbers are a lot better than they really are. They use slogans like "What Every Gun Should Be", and they even claim that their top-tier guns are the best 1911s money can buy (seriously, our Kimber rep told me this when I talked to him; I had to bite my lip to keep from laughing.)iviax said:
Are Kimbers bad guns? No, I'd put them a step below Colt and Springfield, but not too far below. And Kimber does offer many different configurations, many of which are beautiful guns. But Kimbers simply don't have the overall parts quality that Colt and Springfield 1911s have, and their quality control is much more spotty. And them claiming that their top-tier guns are the best 1911s on the market is laughable. Do they honestly believe that they make guns that are better than, say, a Wilson Combat?
Yeah I'm in between colt gold cup and STI Trojan so far but that could change, aluminum vs steel is something I have to get a feel for it but I agree about weight and recoil absorption.
Will keep researching, I read that introductory thread years ago and as a matter of fact last night when it came up on another thread. Appreciate everyone's input and advise!!!
Will keep researching, I read that introductory thread years ago and as a matter of fact last night when it came up on another thread. Appreciate everyone's input and advise!!!
predecessor
New member
It's really hard to mess up a 1911 nowadays. From the Philippines on up your chances of getting a great 1911 that will run and shoot precisely are fantastic. Fall in love with what you fall in love with, enjoy and don't worry too much about which manufacturer the peanut gallery says has the "better" built gun.
That being said, value comes into play when you consider what the end result is for the money that you spend.
The Colt is an excellent value in part because it holds its value well. An with Colt on the verge of bankruptcy, Colts are selling for less than ever.
But if I didn't have or want a Colt already and I had $1200 I'd probably go with a Dan Wesson which seems like a great value because they generally feel like a $2000 gun.
That being said, value comes into play when you consider what the end result is for the money that you spend.
The Colt is an excellent value in part because it holds its value well. An with Colt on the verge of bankruptcy, Colts are selling for less than ever.
But if I didn't have or want a Colt already and I had $1200 I'd probably go with a Dan Wesson which seems like a great value because they generally feel like a $2000 gun.
There are a lot of misconceptions out there....I think Springfield is a decent gun, especially the TRP - but they have a lot of MIM parts in them too ...and so does most any mfg of 1911's under $3,000 or so....
To say Springfield has much better quality than Kimber...is an opinion / and based on what that person has seen, its probably true...and I'm no Kimber defender - but I've seen a number of issues on Springfields lately on firing pin blocks ( which are MIM on all of the Springfield models ) where they are cracking...and I've seen one barrel crack at the lug in a TRP model with less than 50,000 rds thru it ...does it mean Springfield is a bad gun, No. On the barrel that cracked ...Springfield agreed it was metal fatigue not because of an overloaded round...and they replaced it.
Like Springfield - that makes 1911's from around $ 800 - $ 1,500.../ Kimber makes a lot of guns between $ 800 - $ 2,300..../ you can't say all of Springfields reputation rests on their entry level range officer models ...or on their higher end model the TRP....they're very different guns !
But one thing is true....there are no gunsmiths putting together or hand fitting parts in Springfield or Kimbers....they are both mass produced / production line guns....and that isn't necessarily bad either...( but neither company is Wilson Combat either ).
In guns especially...most often, you get what you pay for. More hand fitting, better parts...cost more money.
Compare a Springfield Range officer, a loaded model, a TRP...and figure out which one you like for the money....
Compare a Kimber lower end model - like a Custom II ( not a custom shop gun ) - to a higher end model like the Gold Combat II ....and figure out which one you like for the money....
Talk to a lot of guys at the range....see if anyone is shooting a STI, a SIG, a Les Baer, a Nighthawk, an Ed Brown or even a Wilson Combat....maybe they'll tell you what they like or don't like, would they buy it again, what is current list cost on those guns....
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My opinion, for my money ...Wilson Combat makes the best 1911's out there...and Ed Brown is a close 2nd..../ a distant 3rd is Les Baer...and 4 - 10 are a mix of Springfield, STI, Colt, Kimber, Sig, etc...in no particular order of 4 - 10....because it varies so much by model within those companies.
Personally, I like an all steel gun - with amib safeties, a mag well, night sights, cocking cerrations front and back on slide, wood grips, checkered front strap ( front of grip area), a 5" match grade barrel with a bushing, I prefer an all stainless gun over blued ( stainless wears better in a holster), fixed rear sight - I prefer a battle sight type with a fibre optic front sight as my eyes get worse and worse, I like my trigger to break at about 3.5 lbs with no creep, no slack, a series 70 gun, full sized frame, full length one piece guide rod ....( and personally I have one identical gun in 9mm for range practice / and one in .45 acp, that I shoot a little, but its primarily for carry - and Wilson Combat CQB's fit that criteria for me).
To say Springfield has much better quality than Kimber...is an opinion / and based on what that person has seen, its probably true...and I'm no Kimber defender - but I've seen a number of issues on Springfields lately on firing pin blocks ( which are MIM on all of the Springfield models ) where they are cracking...and I've seen one barrel crack at the lug in a TRP model with less than 50,000 rds thru it ...does it mean Springfield is a bad gun, No. On the barrel that cracked ...Springfield agreed it was metal fatigue not because of an overloaded round...and they replaced it.
Like Springfield - that makes 1911's from around $ 800 - $ 1,500.../ Kimber makes a lot of guns between $ 800 - $ 2,300..../ you can't say all of Springfields reputation rests on their entry level range officer models ...or on their higher end model the TRP....they're very different guns !
But one thing is true....there are no gunsmiths putting together or hand fitting parts in Springfield or Kimbers....they are both mass produced / production line guns....and that isn't necessarily bad either...( but neither company is Wilson Combat either ).
In guns especially...most often, you get what you pay for. More hand fitting, better parts...cost more money.
Compare a Springfield Range officer, a loaded model, a TRP...and figure out which one you like for the money....
Compare a Kimber lower end model - like a Custom II ( not a custom shop gun ) - to a higher end model like the Gold Combat II ....and figure out which one you like for the money....
Talk to a lot of guys at the range....see if anyone is shooting a STI, a SIG, a Les Baer, a Nighthawk, an Ed Brown or even a Wilson Combat....maybe they'll tell you what they like or don't like, would they buy it again, what is current list cost on those guns....
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My opinion, for my money ...Wilson Combat makes the best 1911's out there...and Ed Brown is a close 2nd..../ a distant 3rd is Les Baer...and 4 - 10 are a mix of Springfield, STI, Colt, Kimber, Sig, etc...in no particular order of 4 - 10....because it varies so much by model within those companies.
Personally, I like an all steel gun - with amib safeties, a mag well, night sights, cocking cerrations front and back on slide, wood grips, checkered front strap ( front of grip area), a 5" match grade barrel with a bushing, I prefer an all stainless gun over blued ( stainless wears better in a holster), fixed rear sight - I prefer a battle sight type with a fibre optic front sight as my eyes get worse and worse, I like my trigger to break at about 3.5 lbs with no creep, no slack, a series 70 gun, full sized frame, full length one piece guide rod ....( and personally I have one identical gun in 9mm for range practice / and one in .45 acp, that I shoot a little, but its primarily for carry - and Wilson Combat CQB's fit that criteria for me).
Some one please explain it to me...a 1911 is a 1911 be it Kimber, Colt, S.A., Ruger, Remington, etc. Except for the trigger pull (which is very easy to fix if it is not good), what is the difference if the gun functions? As I see it, it matters not if the small parts are NIM, slides and frames machined or investment cast if they do not break. So, except for the bells and whistles, what is the big deal?
Note: I have owned three poopy Colts and one good one. If I wanted another 1911, it will be a Ruger just because of their low price and customer service.
Note: I have owned three poopy Colts and one good one. If I wanted another 1911, it will be a Ruger just because of their low price and customer service.
For that money I would get a Dan Wesson Heritage.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=486090459
Should be able to get out the door under $1200 with a good transfer dealer.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=486090459
Should be able to get out the door under $1200 with a good transfer dealer.
For $1200, I think I would very happy with any of the following:
1. Springfield Trophy Match.
2. STI Trojan or Lawman
3. Dan Wesson Heritage.
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I have a Kimber Custom II (base model approx 10 years old) in .45. I am happy with it. It would be nicer if it had front strap checkering. Tight fit, smooth. Groups well and reliable. Trigger needed some TLC out of the box; now with Wilson trigger, hammer, and sear, it is at very clean/crisp 5lb. Plenty good for the occasional .45 shooting I do.
I shoot my 9mm 1911s more than the .45. I like the 9mm STI Trojan more than the 9mm Kimber Custom II Target. Both are good but the STI is just a little smoother functioning, tighter fitting, and for some reason I seem to work little harder with the Kimber to get same results as the Trojan.
1. Springfield Trophy Match.
2. STI Trojan or Lawman
3. Dan Wesson Heritage.
===========
I have a Kimber Custom II (base model approx 10 years old) in .45. I am happy with it. It would be nicer if it had front strap checkering. Tight fit, smooth. Groups well and reliable. Trigger needed some TLC out of the box; now with Wilson trigger, hammer, and sear, it is at very clean/crisp 5lb. Plenty good for the occasional .45 shooting I do.
I shoot my 9mm 1911s more than the .45. I like the 9mm STI Trojan more than the 9mm Kimber Custom II Target. Both are good but the STI is just a little smoother functioning, tighter fitting, and for some reason I seem to work little harder with the Kimber to get same results as the Trojan.
PatientWolf
New member
For your budget, I'd go with the Colt. I would not get a gold cup today (I did several years ago) because I've learned as my eyes age, there are better sights for me than black and black.
Others I'd consider are a Sig 1911, a S&W or a Springfield. After I was done considering them, I'd just go buy the Colt.
Others I'd consider are a Sig 1911, a S&W or a Springfield. After I was done considering them, I'd just go buy the Colt.
For $1200...
...for your first 1911 I would get a new Remington for about $500, and you still have $700 left in your account to play with.
Buy a few boxes of generic Win hardball, go to the range, and SHOOT it. You will soon find out what you like or dislike about you experience.
If you are really curious, you will obtain a copy of Jerry Kuhnhausen's fine bible on the 1911, and then you will begin to appreciate the pistol.
I started with a used and abused AMT Hardballer for $150 back in 1992. I wanted it because it was stainless, but bought the book, modified it and refined it, and it is still my only 1911 today, and I have had several others. It runs very well. I also have a 1911 stripped frame build using a Ciener .22 conversion kit and SARCO/Numrich parts that taught me very much about the 1911.
Half of the fun with a 1911 is that you can modify it to your heart's content for much less money than some of these full-blown pistols and learn soooo much.
Good luck in your endeavors, sir.
...for your first 1911 I would get a new Remington for about $500, and you still have $700 left in your account to play with.
Buy a few boxes of generic Win hardball, go to the range, and SHOOT it. You will soon find out what you like or dislike about you experience.
If you are really curious, you will obtain a copy of Jerry Kuhnhausen's fine bible on the 1911, and then you will begin to appreciate the pistol.
I started with a used and abused AMT Hardballer for $150 back in 1992. I wanted it because it was stainless, but bought the book, modified it and refined it, and it is still my only 1911 today, and I have had several others. It runs very well. I also have a 1911 stripped frame build using a Ciener .22 conversion kit and SARCO/Numrich parts that taught me very much about the 1911.
Half of the fun with a 1911 is that you can modify it to your heart's content for much less money than some of these full-blown pistols and learn soooo much.
Good luck in your endeavors, sir.
A 1911 is NOT a 1911. Each manufacturer has differences in tolerances, weights, dimensions. Not all are built to original military spec so when you go to fit after market parts they're either harder to fit or won't fit at all. Go somewhere with a lot of different '1911s' on display, lay a few out and compare them, see how they feel in your hand, how they point, how they fit in a given holster. If you know anything about pistols, and 1911s in particular, you'll see that while they may look similar they are not the same. Never mind quality of fit, finish, and components. Obviously the beaver tail, extended levers, and Novak 'style' sights on a $500 '1911' might look the part but those pieces are not the same as you'll find on a better quality pistol.
Personally, I'm in the 'buy a Colt' camp. Right now they're putting out some of the best guns they ever have and the prices are terrific. They're the real deal, not a clone, they're built to spec, their steel guns are on the lighter end of the weight spectrum, and they hold their value. Plus, if you ever want to personalize it, Colts make ideal foundations for custom builds.
I'd go with the Colt. As far as being old fashioned, no more than any other 1911. Maggie Reese and Rob Leatham do pretty well with them. I see STI is also high on your list. Very nice guns. Kimber would be very low on my list. Although the vast majority are very good guns, they do seem to have a higher number of QC problems than most other makers. I would also check out Brian Enos' forum.