And the Dems claim GWB doesn't know how to fight a war

Redondo and friends,
If the inability of the US to produce substantial quantities of ammunition to certain specifications bothers you, you might consider applying for a Type 06 FFL and start up your own company to do so.

Just a thought.
 
Bending over backwards in an attempt to appease your mortal enemies is utterly pathetic.

Who said anything about appeasing our mortal enemies?

The Afghani National Army aren't currently our mortal enemies. We've still got on-going operations against Taliban rebels over thataways, and there's still Osama bin Laden hiding out in a hole somewhere in the Afghani highlands.

Even with the aid of the Afghani Army it ain't perzackly a cakewalk over there. Let's try not to insult our allies in their own country, hmm?

LawDog
 
Has the Afghan government raised objections to our using Israeli manufactured ammunition in their country? I didn't read that there.
 
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Halcon,

It ain't our enemies I'm worried about, and I nowhere suggested appeasement.

What I am worried about is unnecessary actions that could destabilize friendly or neutral governments or cause the war to spread to places where we ain't ready for it to spread yet. Maybe you think we're ready to piss off whoever we want, and let the chips fall where they may, but the fact that we can't seem to scrounge up enough 5.56 for one or two little police actions seems to argue against that. ;)
 
the fact that we can't seem to scrounge up enough 5.56 for one or two little police actions seems to argue against that.

Details, details! Always with the details, Tamara!


:D


Well, the TRUTH, as every red-blooded American knows, is that we can kick anybody and EVERYBODY'S backside any time we want, every time we want, and we just don't have to even THINK about it! Huuuraaahhhh!




Yeah. Right. The fact that we'd get a lot of men, women, and children killed for no reason other than our bullheaded pride is not important.


And a lot of them would be ours.
 
The reason there isn't enough 556 ammo to go around around is because TFL members like Tamara are buying it all.

Seriously though I don't see this as some kind of vast insult. We need the ammunition; the Israelis are making it. It's not like we're air dropping copies of The Satanic Verses into the countryside.
 
I too find the "shortage " of ammo disconcerting.

But I am really concerned that political correctness has gone so far as to determine the acceptable suppliers of ammunition.

So...we should make IMI build a plant in the USA I guess!

Sensop

Star Packs (that is what they are called) were developed to be a universal pack for fragile electronics. They come in many different sizes and there is even a military specification for them...the number escapes me.

But I have read the darn thing and don't remember religion coming into it.

But I fully expect them to be banned now that you have raised the issue.

I mean...if we can't have the 10 commandements on a buliding :eek:

We certainly can't have the US military establishing a religion :confused:
 
Obiwan,

So...we should make IMI build a plant in the USA I guess!

That should make those who incessantly whinge about outsourcing happy. ;) (Hey, we did it to Beretta and FN and HK, why not IMI?)

I think that would probably be eminently acceptable; employ Americans, build a fresh ammo plant inside our borders, and lose some of the "mercenary tool of the Zionist interlopers" stigma amongst the third world peasants we're trying to keep pacified, all in one fell swoop. Is there a downside? :confused:
 
I don't see this as some kind of vast insult.


But it's not about how YOU see it. It's about how THEY will - very predictably - see it.

I think that would probably be eminently acceptable; employ Americans, build a fresh ammo plant inside our borders, and lose some of the "mercenary tool of the Zionist interlopers" stigma amongst the third world peasants we're trying to keep pacified, all in one fell swoop. Is there a downside?


Who owns IMI? HINT: If it's a Jewish company, you just COMPOUNDED the problem.
 
Good point.

But it's just more evidence that we're dealing with an irrational enemy. You're not going to appease an irrational opponent. We're already in the pockets of the Zionists in their eyes, nothing we do will convince them otherwise. That, and ammunition is fairly essential to the war effort.
 
Yes, they're irrational. No doubt about it.

So is a mother bear. It just isn't smart to tick either one off if you don't have a good reason. Instead of seeing this as political correctness, we ought to see this as a slap upside the head that we've let it come to this.
 
I'd recommend everybody go read some Bernard Lewis and Victor Davis Hanson and get a sense of the long history at work here.

These people (the "Islamic civilization") have a extravagently detailed victimhood complex going back to Lepanto. At root it has almost nothing to do with Israel, that's just the latest strawman, it is the realization of the inability of their once vaunted civilization to provide for the basic needs of the people vis a vis the vitality and productivity of the West. They know they had something special once and instead of blaming the intransigence of their religious leaders toward change, they turn the blame outward to the mythical "other"; the Jews, The Crusaders, the West in general as now personified by the US.

The secular leaders refuse to institute the reforms necessary to enter the modern world and so explicitly allow the fundamentalists to control the dialogue to maintain their own shaky hold on power. It is a system which will collapse because it is built on lies, much like communism fell apart, but it will take constant effort and vigilence on the part of the West. In the meantime, due to the monopoly on information of the fundamentalists and their passive supporters in power, NOTHING we do will change one iota their general view of the West. If it isn't IMI and the Zionists, it will be some other twisted fact or outright lie to keep the peasents enraged.

We ARE engaged in a "world war" here. It is a war between a medieval civilization in its death throes and a West so enlightened, it forgets that jealousy, NOT reason, has been the root cause of war since the dawn of man.
 
carebear said:
We ARE engaged in a "world war" here. It is a war between a medieval civilization in its death throes and a West so enlightened, it forgets that jealousy, NOT reason, has been the root cause of war since the dawn of man.
That statement bears repeating. Well said!
 
Well said...

It is just like the "torture" extravaganza

You just know they were laughing at what our idea of torture was while complaining loudly to the world press
 
OK, ya' know what? After reading a lot of the other remarks, I believe I'll change my viewpoint on this. Lawdog's comment struck me as particularly germaine - why needlessly p1ss off our (current) allies. Tamara's arguments also swayed me - use it if we gotta, otherwise keep it stateside for training or issue it for use in AORs that its source wouldn't be a factor.

I humbly retract my earlier statements.
 
I guess it is high time to buy a poodleshooter. At some point the shooting is going to stop but the ammo production won't coincide immediately and the next big wave of cheap mil-surp might be 5.56mm.

Always look on the bright side. :p
 
Carebear, excellent & insightful appraisal of the fundamentalist mindset, as to why their demise is one of inevitability.

This is probably a pinnacle in PC insofar as to the origin of ammo supplying our troops.

12-34hom.
 
History has a tendency:

"For two weeks in August 1936, Adolf Hitler's Nazi dictatorship camouflaged its racist, militaristic character while hosting the Summer Olympics. Softpedaling its antisemitic agenda and plans for territorial expansion, the regime exploited the Games to bedazzle many foreign spectators and journalists with an image of a peaceful, tolerant Germany. Having rejected a proposed boycott of the 1936 Olympics, the United States and other western democracies missed the opportunity to take a stand that--some observers at the time claimed--might have given Hitler pause and bolstered international resistance to Nazi tyranny. With the conclusion of the Games, Germany's expansionist policies and the persecution of Jews and other "enemies of the state" accelerated, culminating in World War II and the Holocaust. "

The pragmatists won the day then, as they probably will today. Just as pandering to the Nazis did nothing but make things worse then, pandering to radical Islamo-fascists will make things worse now.


I say keep the ammo. To hell with kowtowing to these racist thugs.
 
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