And the Dems claim GWB doesn't know how to fight a war

I'd agree

I'd more or less agree with not using that ammo. No point in bringing more religion in to the political problems over their.
 
Oh fer cryin' out loud! Use nuthin' but the IMI stuff, and make sure every headstamp includes a Star of David.
 
Well, if what you are trying to acheive is WWIII with the Arab world, that would be a good way to go about it. "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it." Those of us who think history is important might be able to point to some incidents where indifference to such matters caused a lot of people - good guys and bad - to die unnecessarily.


On another note, this should be a wake up call. We are losing our manufacturing base. "Doesn't matter! We're moving to a service economy!" say the globalists.

Yeah, til we need to fight a war and all our equipment is being made overseas.
 
Well, if what you are trying to acheive is WWIII with the Arab world, that would be a good way to go about it.
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I'm probably just not sensitive enough or smart enough to care. Looks to me like it's already been declared on us for all intents, and those that aren't actively involved are, at best, antagonistically neutral - so I really don't see a problem. You're right about the manufacturing base, though - kinda tough to hold someone's feet to the fire when he's the guy making your matches...
 
I can just see it now....

Episode of CSI-Iraq

"This man was shot with Israeli Ammo"

So I guess we can't use Uzi's either????

Pork tipped bullets????

Sorry :o
 
Let me get this straight. Most of the sheetheads can't read arabic, much less english, and they are gonna understand US Army Headstamp codes?

I guess the communist democrats don't get a kickback from IAI.

Geoff
Who is in a particularly foul mood. :barf:
 
This is silly. Why is it even an issue?

I kind of eye people who suggest to grease up every round with pork a little funny. They're a little wild-eyed and antagonistic for my tastes, but we're not talking about depriving some poor terrorist of his 72 black-eyed virgins. We're talking about sending him there with good quality ammo. Some made in Lake City. Some in Israel. Doesn't matter which magazine it comes from.

I want to know who first brought this up as a problem.
 
We're never going to placate these enemies by going to so far as to change our ammunition when it displeases them. That kind of groveling is only going to invite contempt. Rightfully so, too
 
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
--George Santayana.

In the search engine of your choice, enter the phrase: "Revolt of 1857", also known as "The Sepoy Rebellion", or "The Great Mutiny".

LawDog
 
I have no problems dispatching terrorists with only non-IMI ammo. If it is sensitive, so what. The real concern here is that the US CAN NOT manufacture enough 5.56 ammo to support this little police action. That is a huge problem. Did I mention that this is a REAL BIG problem?
 
In the search engine of your choice, enter the phrase: "Revolt of 1857", also known as "The Sepoy Rebellion", or "The Great Mutiny".
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LawDog,
Using IMI ammo is not akin to forcing Muslim soldiers to chew pig fat and Hindu soldiers to lick beef tallow. We're talking about refraining from using a perfectly good ammunition source because of the country of origin. This is not something that violates Muslim religious custom (any more than being killed by US troops can do so).

There may be some outcry by some of the racist thugs in the area, but I doubt we'll be making new enemies out of it.
 
The problem isn't that the ammunition "displeases" our enemies or that Iraqi muslims don't like jews, but that Israeli ammunition adds to the possibilities of the conflict expanding in unpleasant and unpredictable ways. It's bad enough that US troops are in constant danger of shooting a vanful of refugees near the Jordanian border or firing up a lost Syrian patrol, but doing so with Israeli-made ammunition could provide just the last gram of propaganda value to topple regimes or launch Invasions of Israel. Sure, in the cosmic scale of things, it's a tiny chance, but we should be able pick our fights, not have them picked for us when some Imam points out that his mosque was shot up by the American mercenary tools of the Zionist interlopers and he has the spent brass to prove it! It's all about minimizing variables and risk management. If the only place we can get the ammo is IMI, fine; but if other alternatives exist, it might be wise to explore them.

If you told folks that millions of people could die if somebody didn't get that .32 away from Gavrilo Princip, they'd've laughed at you. ;)
 
It's all about minimizing variables and risk management. If the only place we can get the ammo is IMI, fine; but if other alternatives exist, it might be wise to explore them.

If you told folks that millions of people could die if somebody didn't get that .32 away from Gavrilo Princip, they'd've laughed at you.
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Tam gets the BINGO prize today.


Of course, the problem is that some people don't care if millions of people die, as long as more of them die than of us. They have this weird idea that America can't lose even when fighting suicidal fanatics who have nukes.

Well, in terms of an all out war, we'd probably win. But the cost would be enormous.



The real concern here is that the US CAN NOT manufacture enough 5.56 ammo to support this little police action. That is a huge problem. Did I mention that this is a REAL BIG problem?
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Also worthy of discussion.
 
In 1979 and 1980, I worked for Northrop Corp in Dhahran, as an instructor for RSAF avionics technicians on the F-5E/F. One day a spare part was ordered from the forward supply point. The item was an azimuth indicator for a radar warning receiver. When it arrived and was opened, accompanied with quite a buzz as all the techs gathered around and stared at the opened package, just chattering away. I went over to see what was up and one of the technicians just pointed at the box and said, "We aren't supposed to get parts from Israel!" I examined the box and could not figure out what he meant because the item was shipped directly from the U.S. to Dhahran, S.A., for the F-5 program (Peace Hawk).

"No, No!", he said. "Look!" I had removed the package from the box and he was pointing to the empty shipping box. When I finally understood the problem, it was the design cut in the dark gray foam that protected the indicator while in the box during shipment. The design was a perfect six-pointed star, as in Star of David. It was a simple, logical design that served its purpose, but the six-pointed star was a BIG no-no. The item was boxed back up (none of them would touch it) and returned to supply with a note in Arabic. No Saudis would touch the damn thing and only foreigners were permitted to handle the box.

Supply was purged of these items and a new package was used that had a different design in the foam cutout. Its all a plot you see. They were suspicious about that for as long as I was there.

There is a similar story about the Saudia Airlines logo design painted on the vertical stabilizer of the Saudia 747 fleet! If one looked verrrry closely, one could make out a Christian cross in the stylized design. Ooops! repaint the vert stabs in the fleet. No kidding.
 
Quartus commented: "Seriously enough to go to war over a symbol."

Hummm, they are getting almost as bad as the ACLU.

Geoff
Who wonders if he can sue the ACLU and all the members for discrimination and hate crimes against christians. :eek:
 
Bending over backwards in an attempt to appease your mortal enemies is utterly pathetic.

Sawing off the heads of hostages is awfully offensive to me, but I don't see any reciprocal sensitivity by the other side here.
 
I'm more concerned that only one American company was able to meet specs. and supply the ammo. THAT bothers MY sensibilities!!
 
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