...And I did it my way

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BRAVO!!! I love it.
A long time ago-years even-I suggested a National Strap It On Day. To say that it didnt fly is an understatement. I still think it is a good idea, but there have to be a whole lot of us doing it.


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You have to be there when it's all over. Otherwise you can't say "I told you so."

Better days to be,

Ed
 
USP, a couple of issues if I may:

1) Be VERY careful in Oregon. There is a STATE law that forbids LOADED open carry in towns over a certain population (the exact figure escapes me at the moment).

2) You said: For, you see, I have to wait six months, get three "references", and show, by State government standards, that I can handle my firearm.

Having lived in Oregon all my life (up until 1995), and having a CHL from there, I don't understand your statement. Oregon is a SHALL ISSUE state, and you need the following: A) cert from an NRA or LEA certified firearms training class, B) fingerprint cards (2 sets), C) photo, D) $100, and the wait is 90 days. No "references" are required. You must pass an OSP and FBI criminal records check, and a mental health records check to get your CHL.

Did I miss something?

BTW, ballsey move IMO. But without knowing the STATE law (as to incorporated towns over XXXX population) I wouldn't have done it. I DO carry concealed, however, in violation of multiple statutes (in WIS).
 
Good move!
What is missing is the most important ingredient: $$$$$$$$.
Since you are already paying your attorney
for his time and expertise, find the formula
you can use to inform an offending manager
that:
1) You will sue him *personally* for false accusations, harassment, and attempts to
prvent you from exrcising your rights; all
these mental cripples understand their
financial interests quite well;
2) and also sue the store that employs him for same.
The corporate owner then may likely fire
the creep and issue the chain-wide policy
insulating itself from further lawsuits.
You may even try next time to bring with you your attorney, or another RKBA friend; with video camera even, if possible; or at least some garlic if not.

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LowClassCat
Always willing to calculate my chances
 
As far as what the a$$holes think - sure I care but again, it doesn't matter. The politicians make the laws & once again, it's an only 3%+1 vote that decides who those politicians are. I will get to that 8/4 in another thread - pretty interesting all-in-all.

Regarding that guy running in for smokes - yikes! Might want to ask a million + 1 if y'all drew for what he didn't do .... yikes!

The lawsuits sound all well & good but that takes bucks - unless you're good enough to go pro se or get a legal beagle to go pro bono.

OK, so we kick off the First Universal Carry - Unlimited (hope the subleties aren't missed on anyone) & really, who cares how many participate? If you can carry legally, why wouldn't you? Pretty much time we exercise our right. Just like with anything else - you don't use it = you lose it.
 
I get dirty looks when I pay for my gas with my 45 on my hip. The folks in my town, however, know better than to call anyone.
 
Man am I going to be unpopular, and no offense meant, but:

Your targets for your acts of "legal civil disobedience" were ill-chosen and your attitude is inappropriate for winning converts or sympathy for your cause.
Your targets were all businesses not public place in the sense that they are not OWNED by the public. I say "Their House, Their Rules." Boycott them if you don't like their policies, but don't come to MY house or business and tell me about your rights. Your "rights" stop at my threshold. The manager had every RIGHT to ask you to leave, surrender your piece, or kiss his @$$ in front of the store, as far as that goes. If you don't like it leave.

You did not advance your cause by tweaking the whiskers of the store's manager. He is a hired schlep for the folks making the real money. What you did was to set is motion the system to pass laws to prohibit open carry.

If you want to "...beard the lion in his own den" strap on your piece and go to the airport, the courthouse, or the police station. These are public venues where your acts of "...civil disobedience" can do some good and challenge the system. They will also get you arrested and you'll get lots of publicity. Publicity is very important in order to change people's attitudes.

If changing people's attitudes concerning open carry is what you are about, don't cause grief for the average citizen (ie. store managers). To change attitudes you must educate and hit people's emotions. How well you educate and how well you effect a person's emotions will determine your success.

Flame on! I can take it.

William

PS
If you like Chinese food try the Ocean Sky on 18th and Chambers. Their Sezchuan Shrimp is to kill for. Lunch is $4.95.



[This message has been edited by William R. Wilburn (edited August 04, 2000).]
 
I'm very impressed by what you did. Perhaps you could have picked better targets, but you did really well. Picking a .22 was a nice touch. Picking a public place like the store exposed you to a lot of people that you might not have gotten elsewhere. If this happens frequently enough, people will understand.

I've heard it said that a hero is someone who does something he knows is right when everyone else tells him that he's wrong.

That may be pushing it a little, but I'll at least dub you a "demi-hero," and certainly courageous.

You could be sued and lose because you knew when you walked in there that carrying openly would needlessly upset people. In fact, it sounds as though that was your purpose. That's a valid point. The goal isn't to upset people, but to remove the fear of guns in the holsters of good people. I don't think that one will happen without the other.

My own experience with my own firearm went from fear to understanding. I suspect it's like that for many people.
 
While on one hand I applaud you for excercising your rights, part of me has to agree with William Wilburn. The first thing I thought of after I read that article and cheered for you was, "I just hope, for your sake, that the manager doesn't become a Sarah Brady type and push for anti-gun legislation in your state." You may have done RKBA more harm than good. As for property rights, I can't agree with William that ones right to self-defense with a firearm ends when one steps on private property. You're not infringing on the store owners rights by merely carrying a sidearm. Your right to self defense is inalienable IMHO.

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The first step is registration, the second step is confiscation, the final step is subjugation.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jack 99:
EricM,

How long ago did you carry in Phoenix? I have an ex-Navy buddy there who tells me that open carry is almost a thing of the past in town.[/quote]

Earlier this year and half of last year, but not all of the time. It really is a thing of the past there, but I got no comments about it.
 
USP: way to go.

"William Wilbur":

Sir, you may notice that the store manager did not ask this gentleman to leave, nor did he forbid him to enter the store. Failing to obey that demand would be a prosecutable offense. Rather, you have a bully who waits to "push his weight" until he is certain that his target means no harm, and said bully has backup. Contemptible. I also fail to see the good in suggesting this gentleman break the law by carrying in commonly forbidden areas. Let us show we can peaceably carry in legal areas first, if you will. While publicity may indeed be necessary to change opinion, common sense must surely be at least as important.
 
As always, there are two sides.

If rights aren't exercised, they are usually diminished if not completely lost.

However, if enough people were upset, they could unite and work to get more restrictive laws passed.

One of the biggest obstacle gunowners face is a perception problem. Generally gunowners are viewed as extremists. This is the image that needs to be changed.

To the manager, I would have been reasonably polite and explain that what I was doing was legal and he was free to call the police to check. Getting in his face in front of all the patrons of the store only tarnishes the image of gunowners.

What you did does take courage, and I applaud you for that. I think an Open Carry Day (where legal) is an excellent idea. However, it would have to be done correctly and be organized. You know there would be resistance to it, but that would be where we, as gunowners, would have to rise above.
 
That's a tough one. I applaud USP45usp for his courage. I'm convinced that if lots of us carried in the open that it could, assuming we behaved ourselves, and that would be the most important part, provide the opportunity for some potentially enlightening conversations with fence-sitters and other sheeple. What is the point in not exercising our right? If you don't exercise your right because you're afraid that it will be taken from you, then why do you care what USP45usp does? You won't lose anything anyway, regardless of what the antis do in response to his actions. You've already ceded it voluntarily.

Now if I only liked the police enough to try it myself.
 
Good job! Sad that you have to be brave in a legal activity, though. :(

Part of the problem with the perception of gun owners is that *only* extremists get seen with guns. If more people did it, crowds would get used to it and wouldn't be so shocked. I'm just surprised, the way the media portrays "gunmen" that people didn't go screaming from the store.
 
Spectre

You are correct. Going to places where a person is sure to be arrested do to posted law is foolish. I apo;ogize to all for not "thinking twice and posting once."

The public library and publicly owned community centers would be appropriate choices for open carry statements.

And yes, the store managers should request any unwanted persons to leave the premises and if they do not leave have them arrested for trespass. He could have told USP45usp to check his weapon or leave.

Ahh! The taste of crow.

William
 
USP45usp,
Forgive me if my impression is wrong, but it seems you went a bit out of your way to be somewhat rude. Would it have changed anything to acknowlede the GM, nod your head and say "How's it goin?"
 
Holy sheeplesh@@!!!! Great job, and a great thread.
Many suggestions and opinions on this subject.
Not sure I have formed mine yet,though.

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"Any world that I'm welcome to.....Is better than the one I come from"
 
Wow!
I do think it would have been wise to be polite to the GM no matter what provacation...that will gain you more sympathy and respect from people that are observing. May not convert them to RKBA but they are not to likely to vote against RKBA if they remember that armed guy that didn't even get angry at the GM that was being a jerk.

My $0.02
 
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