...And I did it my way

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USP45usp

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With apologizes to ol' Frankie. I've read about how to get back at the anti's, how to be a bur in their sides, etc.. I've decided to do things my way, mainly because they are legal but not "PC". I had an interesting day today. Finally got the you know whats to go open carry into town. Already had the stores picked out; WinCo Foods, KMart, Dollar Store and a store that sells, but does not allow consuming, of alcoholic goods. I double checked this last store with the police and a lawyer and it's okay as long as they don't serve for consuming on the premises. Well, you guessed it, Three out of Four stores called the cops. Surprisingly, the booze store was not one of them. At KMart, the first store I went into, they called the cops before I even got into the store. The store GM followed me around and I just ignored him, picked up this and that, looked at it, then put it back. About 15 min. later the police arrived. The GM then thought he would "push" his weight around and demanded that I stop, hand over the gun (to him) and to wait until the officers got to our aisle. Told him where he could go, that I would NEVER hand over my firearm to a want-a-be, but misinformed, hero. The police got to us, looked at me, looked at the GM and then asked if the gun was loaded. I said, "yes sir". He then instructed me to hand over the weapon for my and his safty. I asked if he knew how to unload this brand/type of pistol, he said no. I then asked if I could unload the pistol for him and then hand it over so no AD's occur. He concurred, I unloaded (he and his partner had their hands on the grips of their pistols, which I expected and would have been surprised if they hadn't) and handed it over to him, slide locked back so he could see it was not chambered. I then handed the magazine to him. The GM started to say he was going to press charges, etcc. etc.. etc.. I then stated to the officer that loaded, open carry was legal in Oregon and that Springfield/Eugene DID NOT have a no open carry statue. He made a call (after he had taken my DL so he could run my name) on his radio, no warrents, no arrests, no mental illnesses as defined in a court of law (even though they thought I WAS crazy) and Yes, loaded, open carry was legal. He, the officer, handed me back my firearm, which I holstered (unloaded). He then gave me back my mag and then mentioned that people just don't do this around here. I asked why and he said that 911 would be swamped by calls. I asked, if this is legal, why respond. He said that when the GM called the cops, he told them that an armed man was coming into the store to rob them, we had to respond. He asked me not to do it (carry), I stated that it was my Right to do so and I would continue, no disrespect intended. None taken was his answer and they left. The GM was/is not happy with me or the police (but he can't do jacks**t about it). WinCo and the Dollar Store also called the police but I guess that when they gave my description, told them to chill out. They tried to throw me out of the stores under threat of the police were coming and I just laughed, bought the current issue of Handguns and walked out.

Acts of unPC'ness is what is needed. If it's legal but, "people just don't do that around here", do it. I'm also doing this with other things, just to "stand out and make a stand". The dispatcher will send out cars to the location, not because it is illegal, but (in her own words) because it's "weird". Little acts like this gets the attention of closet RKBA people, people already in the RKBA movement that were too afraid to try it, and also brings the scum, opps, anti's to the top of the barrel. It's fun (but scary) to shove an anti's rantings back down his throat when he, or she, finds out it's perfectly legal. Just have to get on the town board now, you can bet this will come up sooner or later. And if Portlands rabid anti-gun rep. ginny whats her name gets ahold of this, well, another anti-gun bill would prob. make her "tingly" all over. The only thing is: Fellow Oregonians, FIGHT TO PUT ALL THESE DEMOCRAPS OUT OF OFFICE and don't be afraid to fight will all assets available to you. Just be sure to use the computer and information from a lawyer to find out the laws of your city; know the facts, don't go off half-cocked.

USP45usp
 
Hat's off!

Congrats. Funny, isn't it, how the reactions are completely without rational basis. "Hoplophobia" is definitely alive and well. Just like the cops who want to disarm you when they pull you over and you hand them a CC permit with your DL, the reality is that the person who clearly signals that he is armed is the least likely to be a danger. If you had murderous intentions, you surely wouldn't telegraph them. Can't explain that to a hoplophobe though.

I know there's a few places in Idaho where open carry is still practiced. Ironically enough, some people only carry around hunting season. I don't understand why someone would remain unarmed but then strap on a revolver during one brief period during the year, but they do it. My mom's ex-neighbor was that way. I guess Arizona is slowly losing the open-carry tradition too. Kinda sad, really.

I love Oregon, its probably the most beautiful state in the northwest, but its a lost cause. Too many Californians moving north. I wouldn't try the open carry thing again in town if I were you. The cops have probably found something else they can charge you with by now. Probably "public nuisance" or "brandishing".

Good job, though.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by USP45usp:
I asked if he knew how to unload this brand/type of pistol, he said no[/quote]

Really?! Don't LEO's take some sort of weapons training on firearms other than issue-guns?


Hueco
 
I second the THE MAN status. I'd have paid good money to see the look on the K-mart managers face. I applaud you.
 
USP45: What were you carrying?? How hard would it be for someone who is even remotly familiar with firearms to unload/show clear on just about any kind of pistol?
 
I like it and think it is great that you exposed the store manager for the fool he is. But...........
I'm ont sure that this type of thing will further our cause. Consider if you will the impact that it would if we all began doing this tomorrow. What affect would it have?
The media would create an event out of it and it would not be in our favor. People (sheep and anti's) would scream for protection. The end result would be more cities encating legislation prohibiting open carry. Those pieces of legislation would be as misguided and poorly thought out as the ones preceeding them. It could become difficult for us to even carry a gun from the shop to home unloaded if the wrong laws were passed.
Do not take this wrong. I commend you for having the courage to exercise your rights. I just see the results being harmful rather than productive if it were to become wide spread.

------------------
Gunslinger
 
USP45usp, I salute you from the bottom of my little black heart.

Just a thought, but if the GM was sure you were "an armed man...coming into the store to rob them" then what kind of a moron must he be to follow you around and stare at you?

And what the heck were you carrying that confused the cops so much?

In Texas, I can't carry a handgun openly, but rifles are okay. Little cumbersome, though.

Steve
 
Striker3: I had on my Browning Buck mark .22. Just in case, I could have said that I was on my way back from the hills (mountains) after a day of target practice. I think the LEO could have unloaded it himself but when I mentioned AD, he may have just figured to play it safe (I don't look like a criminal or a crazy, out of the loony bin canidate) and had me do it. The mag was loaded but it was not chambered. I also used this gun due to it's low cost (well, to me compared to the others). Also, I was VERY! polite to the LEO's (not to the GM) and they could have told me to hop on one leg, sing the hokey pokey and turn myself around and I would have done so. I prob. looked more scared then the GM. As for brandishing, unless I remove the pistol from it's holster without cause, no go there. Now, for public nuisance, that is the one I am most afraid of. The lawyer I spoke with did bring this up, but feels that it's not that big of deal, that he/we can fight and win. As for "the man"... no, I am just tired. I am tired of halting my speech to be PC... I am tired of not doing something perfectly legal because, "people just don't do that around here".... I am just tired of being lead around by the nose, feeling sorry for myself, for my Rights, and hunkered down in my home too afraid to do anything about it. I'm tired of tip toeing though life afraid to step on anyone's feet. I can spout off at the mouth, but my actions are louder then my words. I've got more form letters in my scrapbook then I care to mention from politicians who "feel" for my cause. I've spent more time typing and mailing letters then I care to think about. I've spent more money in stamps, which goes to the federal post office, which in turn goes to gun buyback and other such programs. I just said to myself, NO MORE. My words, my pen, aren't as "cool" as klintons, for it changes nothing. My actions, simple, LEGAL, civil disobedience has brought these things into the open. If the anti's want to shove their agenda into MY face, then I will shove my legal Rights into theirs. If they wish to step on MY toes, then I will do the same. I am just wishing to use the law to my advantage. PC is not yet the law, and I will do everything in my power and in my heart to ensure that America does not lose what was so hard fought, it's Freedoms.

USP45usp
 
Open carry takes biguns and a willingness to get in people's faces, as USP just found out. Welcome to the club. :D

BTW, one of the guys in the local Libertarian Party has taken to open carry himself.
 
Well done. I got no comments with open carry in Phoenix and now in Boise, but these places aren't exactly Eugene, OR :). You may find that these stores will have brand new signs on the front door reading no firearms allowed. Consider writing a letter to the bosses of each detailing the harrassment you received.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gunslinger:
I like it and think it is great that you exposed the store manager for the fool he is. But...........
I'm ont sure that this type of thing will further our cause. Consider if you will the impact that it would if we all began doing this tomorrow. What affect would it have?
The media would create an event out of it and it would not be in our favor. People (sheep and anti's) would scream for protection. The end result would be more cities encating legislation prohibiting open carry. Those pieces of legislation would be as misguided and poorly thought out as the ones preceeding them. It could become difficult for us to even carry a gun from the shop to home unloaded if the wrong laws were passed.
Do not take this wrong. I commend you for having the courage to exercise your rights. I just see the results being harmful rather than productive if it were to become wide spread.

[/quote]

I disagree. It's legal, so do it. The only concern I have is that you identify yourself as the first target to the bad guy. I would carry concealed.
 
Gunslinger: I did consider that. But, at the same time, what about CCW (or CHL, depending)? We, or most, of us follow that law. The anti's are fighting against it, yet we still have it. What if we *all* started to carry open, while still obeying the law; yes, the anti's would fight against that also, bills and laws would try to be passed, aren't they already doing that now with concealed carry? How is one State law better then another? Because with one, you have to have fingerprints taken, a photo (or thumb print in GA), and go through a Federal background check; with the other, the law is already on the books, without giving up any information to any State or federal agency. What good is a Right, or a Right protected by law, if you don't use it? Is it just something that you know you have, can do (depending on the freedoms of your State) but don't because you're afraid it's going to be taken from you? To "hide and watch" for the time when the anti's lose (or win) and then carry because you can without fear of having to fight (or not because we'd lost the fight)? Yes, I will and am starting a "fight"... one I hope to win, but without taking that chance, then I am as defenseless as the anti's want me to be. For, you see, I have to wait six months, get three "references", and show, by State government standards, that I can handle my firearm. So, for six months I am the victem waiting to happen as hci and others want me to be. But, due to the law, I can still defend myself, still be legal, and still have my "piece of mind". Sure, I can carry illegal, but then they take my firearm, slap a fine on me, and I will never get my firearm back... but they left me an out, they left me the opinion of still protecting myself and my property, but it's not PC to carry in such a way; but it is legal. How may it help the cause.. by showing the anti's and the sheeple that we will NOT stand down. That we have the legal right to do so and we will do so. How can it hurt: Yes, the anti's could try to use me as a poster boy for "evil gunowner". Yes, they may point out the "loopholes" in the State law. But others it may well open their eyes, motivate them to be unPC and maybe, just maybe, closet RKBA supporters will see me or the "report" and get off their collective arses and do something besides hiding, afraid, inside their homes. I'm willing to take a chance, and if I set back the RKBA movement, I will be the first to apologize to one and all.

USP45usp
 
EricM,

How long ago did you carry in Phoenix? I have an ex-Navy buddy there who tells me that open carry is almost a thing of the past in town.
 
Friend, you are the man. I feveryone was like you, the war for RKBA would be won by now. You be careful, though, on two issues:

1. Don't get yourself in a jam or worse. People are idiots; at least half of them are below average. Staying away from these sorts is the best policy.

2. Be polite to everyone, especially idiot store managers. Don't give them a single foothold to criticize your actions. Smile a lot.

We don't have open carry here anymore, I carry concealed. If we did, I'd carry open today because of your inspiring example.

Highest regards,

Ledbetter
 
So, the cops were told the store was being robbed & it took 'em 15 minutes to show? 'Course. I'd not think most robbers carry openly when on their way to "work."

And, this brings up another unanswered question of mine (in the "why disarm me?" thread/s) ... even if LEO has "hand on pistol butt," if I've got mine in my hand to unload it - don't I have a huge tactical advantage? Maybe it's me & I'm missing something here.

BTW, in one unmentioned town in Colorado (Longmont), I had applied for a CCW because we were getting death threats from some local gang-bangers. Chief said nope so I requested from him a signed letter which would exempt me from arrest for open carry. He informed me that open carry is perfectly legal. Relpying to him that I fully understood the law to such an extent that I was aware that he wouild then have me arrested for "inciting to riot" when some anti freaked (& this for legal open carry). That was the end of the conversation with CoP
as far as he was concerned. My subsequent certified letter to him stating that he would not allow me to receive a CCW (or even apply through his office) nor provide for any legal or personal protection, well - Dear Sir, kindly $#!+ in your hat and you are hereby under notice that I will be carrying concealed and illegally from now on until the threat has evaporated as I, personally, see fit.

Local cops winked & told me that was one of the ballsiest things they'd even seen.

Carried concealed with cops' full knowledge in that town for another 2.5 years.

Back to topic - do check out all those l'il secondardy legalities ("freaking an anti," etc.) that may get you into hot water.

Hat's off to whomever actually exerices their rights. Makes one feel very lonely & exposed at times .... try freedom, you'll like it.

And, I don't see how performing a perfectly legal act could in any way be turned against us. Who cares what the a$$holes think? Politicians make the laws and that where the pressure need be brought to bear if anything untoward comes of it.

Say, why don't we all do an across-the-nation open carry day (within local legalities anyway)? Think of anything else that would stick it in their eye moreso?
 
I would also like to offer my salutations for your brave deed!

I would also, however, like to offer one more warning in addition to those mentioned above... beware the Good Guys.

I live in a county where 1 out of every 5 adults (men and women) have carry permits. Open carry is also legal, but not practiced very much. On the rare occasion when someone walks into a place of business with an uncovered weapon, the room can quickly begin to look like someone crashed a mobsters wedding (lots of hands in purses and under jackets). Seeing that they hand out carry permits like "Blockbuster Video" memberships around here, I have to question the amount of training and restraint some of these people have. Can they all distinguish someone merely exercising their rights from a genuine threat? I dunno.

About a year ago I was in a convience store when a young man sprinted into the store wearing a black leather jacket and a Beretta in a tactical thigh holster. When the female clerk screamed and hit the floor he quickly apologized and explained that he was late and needed to buy some smokes (never found out what the hell he was late for). There were three of us hiding in the back isle who drew. I asked myself a million questions in 10 seconds that day.

I guess all I'm saying to the open carry guys out there is that if this is really going to work for you (and our cause) it's important to be careful with every aspect of your demeanor. Your dress, your manners, and your actions will all be magnified 1000% when you open carry.

Good luck, and don't fear the ignorant.

[This message has been edited by JJR (edited August 03, 2000).]
 
labgrade,

I see your point about "who cares what the a$$holes think." But, the fact is they vote and they are impressionable. Every idiot is a potential ally (or enemy) of yours and mine, like it or not.

I think JJR put it very well: "I guess all I'm saying to the open carry guys out there is that if this is really going to work for you (and our cause) it's important to be careful with every aspect of your demeanor. Your dress, your manners, and your actions will all be magnified 1000% when you open carry."

Regards to all,

Ledbetter
 
You da man!

And I second Labgrade's idea: why don't we have an open carry day? Shades of 60's activism! Call it "Civil Obedience Day" .... demonstrating that Good Citizens can and do own sidearms.

pax
"It's amazing how much panic one honest man can spread among a multitude of hypocrites." -- Thomas Sowell
 
Well, congrats USP. I know how I felt the first time I open carried in AZ...out in a small mountain town. No one there but the tourist ever gave it a look unless they just wanted to know what kind of firearm I had.

One thing I DID do since the first time up I didn't have a firearm...I talked to people up there. Store managers, business owners, waitresses and so on...I asked questions about carrying...even talked to the LEO's as I met them...no one ever said to not carry-especially once they got to know me. I might have converted a couple of fence sitters just by being nice and acting humble.

When my freind got busted in a sting..I was standing right there with my firearm on hip talking to her. The LEO's didn't even bother with me or ask me to disarm...maybe there's hope yet. :)

------------------
Satanta, the Whitebear
Sat's Realm: http://SatantasRealm.tripod.com/Entrypage/entrypage.html

My Disability petition: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/DisbHelp/petition.html
 
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