An S&W you don't see every day

Winchester_73

New member
Recently I found out some gun wheeler-dealer friends of mine got in some guns they were selling. Lo an behold, they got some S&Ws. I quicky zeroed in on this scarce 32-20 M&P target.

For those of you who don't know, the 32-20 is also known as the 32 Winchester or the 32 WCF (Winchester center fire). It was overall a lower powered rifle round, and was a chambering in the Winchester 1873, 92, 53, 65 and even later the bolt action model 43, among many other rifles. The round has also been chambered in the Colt SAA, Colt Army Special, Colt Army/Navy revolvers, and the S&W M&P, to name a few. The round is capable of achieving approx 1200 fps with a 100 gr bullet, out of a 20 in barrel. It was at one time considered appropriate for deer (many years ago) but has since been classified as a small game round. Important safety consideration - factory ammo is often labeled as: "for rifle" or "for pistol/revolver" as the more potent rifle power rounds can damage these vintage revolvers. Before shooting 32-20 ammo in your vintage revolver, be sure to verify the round is safe for pistols.

When the S&W model of 1899 M&P debuted, the 32-20 still was fairly popular. Colt also had a DA revolver in the caliber, so S&W followed suit. Despite the popularity of the S&W M&P in general, the M&P in 32-20 never caught on. Some years later, after making fixed sight M&Ps in 32-20, S&W debuted a target version. Pre war target M&Ps are uncommon to scarce, and since there were far less 32-20s made, there are of course far less 32-20 M&P targets around. The model changes of the 32-20 M&P were the same as the 38 M&P.

Before WWII, S&W churned out over 144k of the 32-20 M&Ps, in all configurations. It is speculated by many S&W collectors/researchers that less than 5% were targets, perhaps 3%? Compare that to the 38 production, of approx 1 million units, and 5% to 10%+ are thought to be the target variation.

When I saw the gun, I fell in love with it. It probably dates to the 1920s, but being that these guns were slow sellers, many did not ship for years after they were made. It shows some wear, but it is in respectable condition, and its all original. Production of the 32-20s was completed sometime in the early 1930s, but they were offered and sold up to 1940. These were discontinued then and not offered since.

The gun has the "MADE IN USA" marking on the right, which makes it 1923 or later production. The SN of 114XXX makes it a 1905 4th change 32-20 M&P. The 32-20 M&Ps did have their own SN range. The gun wears its original grips and bore and chambers are clean. It of course also works perfectly.

I never fired a 32-20 before, but I have been told they have very stout recoil.

I have a few pre war 38 M&P targets, but I always wondered when I would finally find a 32-20 M&P target, and here it is. Enjoy

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Here is the barrel marking at that time, S&W changed the caliber barrel designation several times throughout the 32-20 M&P production.

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The pre war style adjustable sights. Rear sight assembly is flush with top strap, the sight adjustment screws are small. The post war micrometer adj rear sight that we all use and love today did not arrive until 1940.

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Below is a pic of the 32-20 target, coupled with a 38 1905 4th change M&P target. They may have shipped at approx. the same time, which is why they share all of the same features. However, many 32-20 M&Ps shipped late, so only a letter will tell for sure. The 38 target on bottom shipped September 5, 1923 to Honeyman Hardware Co, Portland OR. A dynamic duo...

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Seriously jealous.

What did you have to give for it?


"I never fired a 32-20 before, but I have been told they have very stout recoil."

Bull Und Scheissen.

It's very similar to a 148-gr. .38 Special Target Wadcutter.

Anyone who finds that it has "stout recoil" has probably latched onto a box of the Winchester High Velocity stuff.

I've got both a K frame (fixed sights) and a Colt Police Positive (or PP Special, can't remember right now), and have fired several Peacemakers in .32-20, and none of them had more than a minimal amount of recoil.
 
Most 32-20 rounds I have been able to find are relatively low powered "cowboy" ammo for the CAS crowd.
I did manage to find 7 boxes of recent production Remington 100 grain JSP for $15 a box (!) at a yard sale. I bought 'em all.
My 32-20 revolver is a 1921 nickel plated Colt Police Positive Special 4".
I find it fills my need for a farm pocket pistol that has more power than a 22 magnum in a compact package.
 
Those are some purty shooters.



I've been working with my Colt OP (circa 1931) and have found that 3.7 grains of win. 231 and my plainbase traditional bullet make a very accurate load for my gun. The cast GC version even better. I was targeting this load yesterday along with jacketed loads I normally use in my Marlin 94 with a serious amount of 1680, and the empties fell out on there own.

I don't believe the high pressure (rifle loads?) have been marketed in a lot of years




BTW, even the much higher than saami pressure loads are not kickers.
 
"I don't believe the high pressure (rifle loads?) have been marketed in a lot of years"

They haven't been, probably not since around WW II.

But I still see boxes of them at gun shows and gunshops.
 
Is that a K frame? I had a 32SWL M&P target ( I frame) I found in a pawn shop and some guy on S&W forum wanted it more than I did - it was rare and VERY nice

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The .32-20 S&W is basically the same as the M&P and some writers say that the M&P was made in .38 Special and .32-20. But S&W was always careful to designate as the M&P model only revolvers made in .38 Special. The .32-20 had its own serial number range, and was not considered an M&P.

As to the "hot" rifle cartridges, I have long understood that prior to the 1920s there was only one loading of the .32-20, and Colt and S&W revolvers had no problem with it. But when the cheap cast iron Spanish revolvers imported after WWI began to blow up, the ammo makers reduced the .32-20 load and designated the low power round as a "revolver" load; the original load became a "rifle" cartridge. An S&W or Colt revolver in good condition should be able to handle any factory .32-20.

Jim
 
Jim,

Winchester, Western, Remington, and Peters all loaded a line of cartridges, including for the .32-20, to higher pressures and velocities. These came out between 1900 and 1910 and were designed for use in the much stronger Model 1892 Winchester.

They were most emphatically a LOT more powerful than the original black powder and transitional smokeless loads for the .32-20.

Some of these loads used lighter bullets to get higher velocities, but they also ran at significantly higher pressures.

There are known cases of such ammo taking the sideplates off of Winchester 1873s and opening up the cylinders on Colt SAA blackpowder frames.

The ammo that was so manufactured, at least by Western, was very clearly marked on the box as being only for the Winchester 1892.

There were also high velocity, higher pressure loads developed in .45-70 for the Model 1886 rifle.

Ah...

Here we go.

This is a box of Western .32-20 high velocity cartridges, which clearly shows the warning.

Since the bullets are lubaloy, the ammo was produced sometime after 1922, and given the graphics on the box, likely before World War II.

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Regarding the Spanish revolvers, I'm not sure that your scenario makes sense. The "original" .32-20 loading was a pressure/performance duplicate of the original blackpowder loadings, and ran about 15,000 psi.

To the best of my knowledge, that was always the lower threshold, and the cartridges were pushed up from there, not the other way around, and it was done before Spanish pot metal revolvers started showing up in the US.
 
Holy cow, that's a real beauty.

The factory letter should bring an interesting few notes and even more joy.

Well done.
 
:eek: A totally awesome revolver... where is the drooling smilie ???

I have a 32-20 ( actually 30 caliber ) Contender barrel, & a little while back, I picked up this black powder conversion in 32-20...

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Winchester 73 - didn't your mother tell you it's not nice to tease the other kids? And seeing that excellent piece of history is definitely causing some SERIOUS jealousy problems, at least at my end (LOL). But seriously you have scored a big one with this 32-20. Skeeter Skelton wrote several articles about the old 32-20 cartridge and it was one of his favorite old rounds, behind the 44 SPL.
You have found an icon of American workmanship, and I can't believe the shape it's in after all these years. You should be proud as a peacock over this one. Enjoy that beauty.
 
The 32-20 is a hoot. Recoil is very mild due to the mass of the bullet (Newton's Third Law and all).

The 32-20 was identical to the M&P but Smith did keep them separate in name and serial range.

That's a real nice one. The target version is most unusual and that one appears to be in excellent shape.

I have a couple of 32-20 revolvers (one S&W and one Colt) but neither is a target model and both are definitely shooter grade.


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What a beautiful revolver. I wish my pops was Internet savvy so I could show him your find!
He has a mint Official Police but that Smith takes the prize!
 
I'm also a fan of Skeeter, probably why I have 4 .44 spec. and no .44 magnums. Use to go to the PX 69-71 for smokes, $2.30 a carton, Chevas $3.00 a fifth and to see if a new Shooting Times was available. Anyway after posting my OP and seeing all the nifty 32/20s I went back yesterday to put my shooter on paper resulting in the below group with 63 year old eyes that can't seem to focus on sights like they use to. My Marlin 94CL is very accurate with sometimes 1" groups @ 100yds.

The 32/20 offers some reloading issues, but both of mine are quite accurate.


 
back then guns did indeed have love crafted into them.

a great gun to add to your collection. I think anyone here with any sense would love to own. ;)
 
Yours is in better shape than mine but the gun is very accurate, recoil no big deal at all and the guns just balance great. I keep some newer style finger groove target grips on mine for shooting:



Sometimes for fun I CCW this .32-20 M&P, carries easy

 
Color me green. I AM jealous. Thats a really nice gun. I am also a 32 caliber fan. I have several 32 long and several 32 mag revolvers and a Marlin 1894 32 mag rifle. Plus a PP in 32 ACP.

Gil Sengal wrote an excellent article on the 32-20 round in Handloader a few years back. Do a search of their back issues. The info is well worth the price of the magazine.
 
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