JesseGDeluca
New member
May I lawfully ship a firearm directly to an out-of-State licensee, or must I have a licensee in my State ship it to him? May the licensee return the firearm to me, even if the shipment is across State lines?
An out-of-State licensee
- Thread starter JesseGDeluca
- Start date
PolarFBear
New member
What is a licensee? If across state lines, it must go to an FFL in the receiving state, for a "documented transfer. Likewise, the licensee(?) must transfer it back to you via his state's FFL back to an FFL in your state to you. Suggest, as a minimum, you review your states gun laws.
Spats McGee
Administrator
If a firearms transfer is to happen between residents of different states, an FFL must be involved, per federal law.
dogtown tom
New member
Yes, as long as your state has no prohibition on you shipping a firearm.
Only if the receiving dealer requires it.
Federal law allows the direct return of a repaired or replacement firearm of the same kind or type to the person who shipped it for repair. Again, your state may have additional restrictions.
dogtown tom
New member
If you don't know, maybe hold off on any reply.
A "licensee" is someone licensed to deal or manufacture firearms. An "FFL" means Federal Firearms Licensee, and those who hold that are referred to as "licensees" by ATF.
Not according to federal law/ATF regulations.
Always.
PolarFBear
New member
DogTownTom, thanks so very much for the cogent feedback. Yes a FFL is a licensee. And so is a Concealed Hand Gun Carry Permit which designates me as a Licensee. Vocabulary is an art of many definitions.
Could you clarify which part "Not according to federal law/ATF regulations." refers to, "must go to FFL in receiving state" or "must transfer it back to you via an FFL in your state"? And could you cite the applicable regulation? Thanks!
Beyond that, it is a matter of context.
In this case where the subject is shipment of firearms across state lines, the license required is an FFL (Federal Firearms License).
as I understand it, Federal law requires your firearm to be received by an FFL in a different state. FEDERAL law does allow your long gun to be sent directly back to you (after repair work, etc) , without having to be sent to an FFL in your state.
HOWEVER, there are state and other laws that MIGHT require that, and as I understand it, if its a handgun it has to go FFL to FFL under federal law.
In my state, currently, every "transfer", including returning your own property to you (and in state!) requires going through an FFL dealer by state law.
The best thing to do, is go to an FFL in your state, pay the fee and have them handle all the paperwork and shipping details.
Also, be aware that there are some FFL dealers who will neither ship to, or accept firearms from non FFL license holders as a matter of their business practices, along with what the actual laws require.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
If you hold a concealed carry "permit," you are a "permittee," not a "licensee."PolarFBear said:
Aguila Blanca
Staff
I believe that was the point being made in post #7.44 AMP said:
dogtown tom
New member
OP asked: "May I lawfully ship a firearm directly to an out-of-State licensee, or must I have a licensee in my State ship it to him? May the licensee return the firearm to me, even if the shipment is across State lines?"
Which seems to imply they are shipping the firearm for repair or gunsmithing. This is one of the very few exceptions to federal laws on the interstate transfer of a firearm.
ATF address this in their FAQ's:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/how-would-licensee-record-disposition-replacement-firearm-licensee%E2%80%99s-records
Thos citations at the bottom are from the Us Code and Code of Federal Regulations.
and
dogtown tom
New member
RE whether your Dick Tracy secret decoder ring qualifies you as a "licensee"
OP asked a question in the Law and Civil Rights subforum. That question pertains to the interstate transfer of a firearm and mentions "licensee". OP knows what a licensee is, but oddly others seem to confuse what their state license to carry/CHL/CCW/firearm carry permit allow them to do.
What on earth makes you think your state license to carry/CHL/CCW/firearm carry permit has anything to do with the interstate shipment or transfer of a firearm?
It has absolutely nothing to do with it.
My car has a license plate. Should we claim that my car is a licensee in the context of this thread?
OP asked a question in the Law and Civil Rights subforum. That question pertains to the interstate transfer of a firearm and mentions "licensee". OP knows what a licensee is, but oddly others seem to confuse what their state license to carry/CHL/CCW/firearm carry permit allow them to do.
What on earth makes you think your state license to carry/CHL/CCW/firearm carry permit has anything to do with the interstate shipment or transfer of a firearm?
It has absolutely nothing to do with it.
My car has a license plate. Should we claim that my car is a licensee in the context of this thread?
OP asked a question in the Law and Civil Rights subforum. That question pertains to the interstate transfer of a firearm and mentions "licensee". OP knows what a licensee is, but oddly others seem to confuse what their state license to carry/CHL/CCW/firearm carry permit allow them to do.
What on earth makes you think your state license to carry/CHL/CCW/firearm carry permit has anything to do with the interstate shipment or transfer of a firearm?
It has absolutely nothing to do with it.
My car has a license plate. Should we claim that my car is a licensee in the context of this thread?
Agreed… licensee is someone with an FFL. Non-licensee… someone without an FFL. Not a difficult thing.
If the OP made it seem like he was talking about something other than that, then definitively give him a heads up.
From what I've been seeing elsewhere, at one time I could ship my firearm (rifle) via USPO, UPS and Fedex. I've heard that now UPS and FEDEX require firearms shipped though them be sent via FFL to FFL only. 
Seems they also require special paperwork as well. So if I need to send my Ruger back to them for repair or other reason, I can either go via USPO or have an FFL send it though the two private organizations. Brings forth a point to ponder. One, how come both came to the conclusion to do this as the same time? Was there Some kind of deal made with dot gov under the table? From what I've read, they require three separate forms depending on what id being shipped. One for firearms, one for firearm parts and one for other firearm related purchases, whatever that might entail. If one should order a firearm and accessories, they have to go in separate shipments as well as filling out those forms. With all the push for gun control by the Dems, nothing would surprise me anymore. I'm not saying there's a conspiracy here but with so much stuff being bought by mail order and through the internet, what better way to gather up a list of firearm owners that could easily be subpoenaed by you know who.
Paul B.
Seems they also require special paperwork as well. So if I need to send my Ruger back to them for repair or other reason, I can either go via USPO or have an FFL send it though the two private organizations. Brings forth a point to ponder. One, how come both came to the conclusion to do this as the same time? Was there Some kind of deal made with dot gov under the table? From what I've read, they require three separate forms depending on what id being shipped. One for firearms, one for firearm parts and one for other firearm related purchases, whatever that might entail. If one should order a firearm and accessories, they have to go in separate shipments as well as filling out those forms. With all the push for gun control by the Dems, nothing would surprise me anymore. I'm not saying there's a conspiracy here but with so much stuff being bought by mail order and through the internet, what better way to gather up a list of firearm owners that could easily be subpoenaed by you know who.Paul B.
dogtown tom
New member
For a rifle or shotgun correct.
They didn't. FedEx announced their policy change almost a year earlier than UPS. But historically they have copied rate increases and other policy changes done by the other carrier.
I doubt ATF had anything to do with this, I'm guessing it was pressure from Democratic Congressmen.
Yep.
Yet it won't be a list of firearm owners. The firearms are being shipped to another FFL. I have no need to tell a carrier who paid for the gun.
Both UPS and FedEx have announced changes in their policies about shipping firearms. They now require that firearms only be shipped by Federal Firearms License holders (FFLs), to other FFLs.
This new policy comes after letters were sent from a group of Democratic senators to a variety of shipping companies, including UPS and FedEx.
https://www.markey.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/shipping_companies_security_on_gun_shipments_letters.pdf
The letters were signed by Senators Edward Markey (D-Mass.), Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.), Cory A. Booker (D-N.J.), Christopher S. Murphy (D-Conn.) and Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.).
In them they asked questions about shipping security and informed the companies of the following:
Under existing law, only licensed gun dealers and manufacturers — known as Federal Firearms Licenses (FFL) — can ship a firearm across state lines.
The problem is that it's not true. Existing law allows an non-licensee to ship interstate to a licensee or manufacturer.
May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her or her own state or to a licensee in any state.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A)] [emphasis added]
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonlicensee-ship-firearm-common-or-contract-carrier
If these Senators think that making shipping a firearm more inconvenient and expensive will somehow reduce crime, then they should introduce legislation to change the law. If they can't get it passed, they should take the hint and let the matter drop, instead of strong arming shipping companies to change their policies and misrepresenting the law to do it.