You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
An observation relative to Federal vs. Winchester primers.
- Thread starter dahermit
- Start date
My shooting and load are strictly for timed shooting events (falling plate and steel bowling pins), so positioning the gun between shots is not viable in that situation.I experienced based on how the pistol was pointed before being shot does seem to be a factor that you might want to check and eliminate as a contributor to your problem.
I use a Dillon 550b for all my handgun loading. I have a low powder warning system on the powder measure, so it is very rare to have to intervene in the cycle...powder charges are delivered mostly without fail compared to a single stage press where a case may get an inadvertent double charge (or no powder at all). In the rare instance where I interrupt a casing in the shell plate, I take extream care to make sure there is no chance for a double charge.Of all the cartridges I load 38 Special is the one that scares me the most. This is because the powder charges are generally so tiny that a double (or in some cases even a triple) charge could escape notice.
Light loads in large cases is exactly what Trail Boss powder was designed for. Fill a 38 Special case up to the base of the bullet (but no more - compressed loads are a no-no) and you're still going to get a light load. I've never had a squib load using Trail Boss in a 38 Special case with a WSP primer. Just another observation.
So, Have you tried 3.0 grains of Trailboss under a 125-grain cast bullet, specifically? The Hodgdon site lists 3.0 grains as the starting load for a 125-grain bullet but does not specifically identify the bullet as being lead (it likely means jacketed). Nevertheless, I do not have any Trailboss in my supply of powders. But, I have already gone to 4.0 grains of Unique (with Winchester primers) and that still was producing squibs...so what makes you think 3.0 grains of Trailboss would be any better? How about you give it a try and let me know.Light loads in large cases is exactly what Trail Boss powder was designed for. Fill a 38 Special case up to the base of the bullet (but no more - compressed loads are a no-no) and you're still going to get a light load. I've never had a squib load using Trail Boss in a 38 Special case with a WSP primer. Just another observation.
From Hodgdon's web site:
And from the label on each can of the powder:
But no, I haven't tried 3.0g under a 125g bullet, largely because I don't shoot 125g bullets in my 38 Specials. However, I DO load 3.2g of Trail Boss under a 158g lead bullet as my standard shooting load, and get about 650fps out of it. That much Trail Boss nearly fills the case - it is extremely light weight stuff. With WSP primers, I have never had a squib.
Trail Boss was designed specifically for low-velocity lead bullets suitable for Cowboy Action shooting.
And from the label on each can of the powder:
Developed Exclusively for Lead Bullets
But no, I haven't tried 3.0g under a 125g bullet, largely because I don't shoot 125g bullets in my 38 Specials. However, I DO load 3.2g of Trail Boss under a 158g lead bullet as my standard shooting load, and get about 650fps out of it. That much Trail Boss nearly fills the case - it is extremely light weight stuff. With WSP primers, I have never had a squib.
disseminator
New member
FWIW I use Trail Boss extensively in my 45 Colt and 44 Mag for nice plinking loads around 900 feet. The case fill is excellent and I like it a lot more than TiteGroup which I used before.
Try it, you will like it.
Try it, you will like it.
I expect right now you are going into denial.
The only thing I am in denial about is how a post that clearly states "...an observation..." and "...for what it is worth..." gets interpreted as a question seeking answers.
Sorry, I thought you were looking for answers and a fix. Just stay on the path you are, use only Federal primers, but in time, you will also experience misfires and squibs with them. You don't seem interested to changing out to a stronger mainspring, because that will change the fine and light trigger pull on your revolver. If a bullet gets lodged in the barrel and the next one bulges or splits the barrel, you will still have a fine and light trigger pull, though maybe not a functional revolver.
I am not interested in changing out a mainspring that I have spent so much time and effort in installing in the first place. The gun has been tuned for a very light double action pull...on purpose, not the result of a "worn-out" mainspring. You seem to have missed the concept of a tuned competition gun that has a custom mainspring installed (as well as extensive action work). If "...in time, you will also experience misfires and squibs with them.", I will install a slightly stronger mainspring from my extensive collection. The fact that I have a brass rod to deal with any stuck bullet that I may encounter should alleviate your concerns.Sorry, I thought you were looking for answers and a fix. Just stay on the path you are, use only Federal primers, but in time, you will also experience misfires and squibs with them. You don't seem interested to changing out to a stronger mainspring because that will change the fine and light trigger pull on your revolver. If a bullet gets lodged in the barrel and the next one bulges or splits the barrel, you will still have a fine and light trigger pull, though maybe not a functional revolver.
I very well may just do that. Your post and Wrangler5's seem to make sense. There does not seem to be a good way to reduce the case volume, so bulkier powder may be worth experimenting with. Thanks for the suggestion.FWIW I use Trail Boss extensively in my 45 Colt and 44 Mag for nice plinking loads around 900 feet. The case fill is excellent and I like it a lot more than TiteGroup which I used before.
Try it, you will like it.
I am not interested in changing out a mainspring that I have spent so much time and effort in installing in the first place. The gun has been tuned for a very light double action pull...on purpose, not the result of a "worn-out" mainspring. You seem to have missed the concept of a tuned competition gun that has a custom mainspring installed (as well as extensive action work).
Took you a while to explain how your ignition system became marginal. Not through wear, not through age, but a deliberate act. And, you would rather have a marginal ignition system than change to an ignition system that will provide reliable function with all primers and all ammunition on the market.
Instead, you have been playing with increasing charge weights to compensate for weak primer ignition. I don't think that is a real winner, I think that is a big badda boom in the making. But, lets not forget, this is a highly tuned competition gun on its way to become an expensive paperweight.
I have been shooting Bullseye Pistol for about three years now. An alibi really messes up scores. Luckily I have never seen anyone blow a barrel due to a squib, which would be easy if a bullet got lodged in the barrel during timed fire or rapid fire. But lucky you, that will never happen because you have a cleaning rod. You can jam that down the barrel, in all that time you have when you are shooting five rounds in ten seconds, which is the time given for each rapid fire segment. Maybe with that cleaning rod you won't miss the missing shot in the bull at 50 yards in the slow fire segment. You will always find all the holes and thus, you will figure out that you have a bullet stuck in the barrel, and you won't burst your barrel firing another round. It takes remarkable eyes to see a double at 50 yards. Better wear your shooting glasses if you want to keep them.
Most competitors I know appreciate a tuned, highly reliable match pistol, one that goes bang without going Kaboom. Also, people who blow up guns, they get a reputation.
I have used mostly Federal primers over the years.
Some manuals cite Winchester or other primers and I have used them in those loads.
The Federal primers are hotter and tougher cups especially the Fed 215 large rifle magnum primer. The only one quoted by all the books I have so far for the Weatherby Magnums.
I may use other primers for other loads if the manuals call for them such as the 5.56 with military type primer with tougher cup.Brand and size escapes me at the moment.
That primer is hard to find now though. I have a supply of Winchester small rifle and some others. So far no pierced or blown primer cups in the AR.
Some manuals cite Winchester or other primers and I have used them in those loads.
The Federal primers are hotter and tougher cups especially the Fed 215 large rifle magnum primer. The only one quoted by all the books I have so far for the Weatherby Magnums.
I may use other primers for other loads if the manuals call for them such as the 5.56 with military type primer with tougher cup.Brand and size escapes me at the moment.
That primer is hard to find now though. I have a supply of Winchester small rifle and some others. So far no pierced or blown primer cups in the AR.
My original post was carefully constructed as to not encourage unsolicited advice because I have found that there will be posts from a few very knowledgeable people, but also many more from persons who manifest the Dunning-Kruger Effect. It seems I have failed.Took you a while to explain how your ignition system became marginal. Not through wear, not through age, but a deliberate act. And, you would rather have a marginal ignition system than change to an ignition system that will provide reliable function with all primers and all ammunition on the market.
If you will excuse me, I would rather continuing following the methods of Jerry Kunhnhausen, Patrick Seeney, Jerry Miculek and Grant Cunningham rather than some one who has "...been shooting Bullseye Pistol for about three years now."Took you a while to explain how your ignition system became marginal. Not through wear, not through age, but a deliberate act. And, you would rather have a marginal ignition system than change to an ignition system that will provide reliable function with all primers and all ammunition on the market.
Instead, you have been playing with increasing charge weights to compensate for weak primer ignition. I don't think that is a real winner, I think that is a big badda boom in the making. But, lets not forget, this is a highly tuned competition gun on its way to become an expensive paperweight.
I have been shooting Bullseye Pistol for about three years now.
I have been casting, reloading and shooting since 1963, have studied (and have degrees in) metalurgy, machining, besides being an avid firearms enthusiast for most of my life. In short, you may not have the qualifications to advise or caution me relative to the subject.
I picked up a canister of Trail Boss today and I can see an unexpected problem. 19.99 for a mere 9oz. of powder. That is $35.00 or so a pound...a tad expensive for the volume of shooting I do.Light loads in large cases is exactly what Trail Boss powder was designed for. Fill a 38 Special case up to the base of the bullet (but no more - compressed loads are a no-no) and you're still going to get a light load. I've never had a squib load using Trail Boss in a 38 Special case with a WSP primer. Just another observation.
disseminator
New member
I picked up a canister of Trail Boss today and I can see an unexpected problem. 19.99 for a mere 9oz. of powder. That is $35.00 or so a pound...a tad expensive for the volume of shooting I do.
That is expensive. Shop around. I paid around 14.50 each for the two cans in the cabinet right now.
Here's a pretty good deal: https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/27385
I went to the only other gun store (handloading stuff), in my area and they had Trail Boss for $18.88 for a 9 oz. container.That is expensive. Shop around. I paid around 14.50 each for the two cans in the cabinet right now.
Not so great. When the shipping and hazardous material fee is paid, that still comes out to $30.548 a pound.Here's a pretty good deal: https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog...roductId/27385
I do have a 9 oz. container to experiment with, but it does not matter if it turns out to be a wonderful powder or not, it is just a tad too expensive for me to develop any interest in it at this time...especially since I bought 3,000 more Federal primers yesterday. Nevertheless, if Trail Boss turns out to be absolutely wonderful, I will continue to look for better prices.
Jim Watson
New member
I don't have The Answer.
I load .38 Special with Federal primers for my "limber spring" revolvers, also.
If I can't get Federals, I will shoot automatics.
3000 primers at 72 a day is not quite a 6 week supply.
Shop hard.
A British source said that the only fault with the many S&W revolvers they got to supplement Enfields and Webleys was that the mainsprings tended to fade with use. That would be a problem with hard military primers long before it would show up with commercial ammo or reloads with selected soft and sensitive primers. But the report was there.
I load .38 Special with Federal primers for my "limber spring" revolvers, also.
If I can't get Federals, I will shoot automatics.
3000 primers at 72 a day is not quite a 6 week supply.
Shop hard.
A British source said that the only fault with the many S&W revolvers they got to supplement Enfields and Webleys was that the mainsprings tended to fade with use. That would be a problem with hard military primers long before it would show up with commercial ammo or reloads with selected soft and sensitive primers. But the report was there.