An honest question about striker-fire and young kids

JSMidd said:
...Do you feel 100% safe with a chambered firearm that can go "boom" at the press of a trigger around young kids? I have never, ever, ever, had my striker-fire firearm come out of its IWB holster, but I got too close for comfort today, and it's got me thinking. To be fair, I think that we carry "just in case", and that line of thinking has me considering a semi-auto with external safeties of some kind for the same "just in case" thinking with my younger kids.
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If you're concerned about kids accessing a loaded weapon, the type of safety or trigger in a chambered firearm is irrelevant.

If a kid can get to it, a kid can make it fire. Making it harder to do just makes it a bigger challenge :). As others have noted, the a far more important question is "what sort of gun safe or storage device is best in my home so that my kids (or their visiting friends) can't get to the gun(s) when I'm not with them."

Even if you've trained your kids well -- and some have -- your kids have friends who can come to the house. Because you (or your more-savvy kids) can't be everywhere all the time, some of THOSE kids may be able to access a chambered weapon -- unless the weapons are kept under lock and key. Just training your kids about gun safety isn't enough.

I no longer have kids at home, but a grandchild and other young family members do visit. Small, lockable gun safes that can be fixed in place, and can't be easily opened without a crowbar or sledgehammer are generally kid-proof; quite a few can be found for under $100, and are far safer than any on-gun safety mechanism. (I also have a medium-sized fire-proof gun safe for my other handguns and rifles, and other family valuables).

One of our small safes is attached to the floor near my bed, but you won't notice it unless you're looking for it. At night it's left open and unlocked, but when there were kids in the house, it was always closed and locked. It was easily opened by pressing 3 buttons on top in a certain order -- even in the dark. It's closed and locked as soon as I get up.

The other small gun safe is in our den on another floor, also contains a loaded handgun. That safe stays locked, inside the bottom of a cabinet but attached to the floor; while it's easily accessed, its not easily seen. It is also opened by pressing four buttons in the proper order (or by using a key). Kids or burglars won't get into any of those safe unless they bring crowbars or heavier equipment with them -- and they may not even find the small safes.

If someone comes in while we're away, our home security system should be screaming at them and that will let them know they haven't got a lot of time to work... They'll probably be looking for something that's more easily grabbed than guns in a gunsafe.
 
I never had an issue carrying a loaded striker fired pistol around my kids, and they were close to your younger ones in age. Even still, if you have your doubts about safety I believe it is best to err on the side of caution. My holsters do not have a strap for retention, but none of my guns have even come close to falling out.

With all that being said, I later made the change back to DA/SA. I did it because I prefer the platform for SD carry, but that's just me. My seven year old is able to pull the trigger on my Sig (with both hands only), but regardless of that, all loaded guns in the house are locked up in a safe. My boys also know the difference between toys and real guns, but you can never be too careful.
 
When the Israeli big change of Browning Hi Power, to the move to Glock pistols,
loaded chamber is now the way to go.

Same inside the belt holsters, and double mag pouches, also inside.

I never saw any fat ones! Security Officers. In Canada, 10 round capacity mags.
 
Like some others have said, there is no way to give specific advise without knowing more about what happened. For advice as general as the question, though, everyone needs a good holster, and everyone needs a good way to secure firearms from children. Whether the pistol is striker-fired or not is not in the equation.

While I agree with the principle of educating about firearms to satisfy their curiosity, firearms still need to be secured, for the simple reason that immature people make immature decisions. The ability to think things all the way through and see all possible consequences of one's action is a skill that develops, if it all, with a certain amount of age and experience.
 
Without falling into the trap of going on a diatribe, the answer to your question is YES I do feel 100% safe with a loaded striker fired gun around my younger kids and still younger grand kid.
 
My kids are grown, but I have grand kids and they often bring their friends over to grandpa's place to ride horses and 4 wheelers.

I feel I can train and trust my grandkids but I don't know some of their friends.

Having said that I feel perfectly safe with striker or hammer fired firearms simply because they are locked in one of my safes.

Except my carry gun which is in my pocket. I'm not too concerned with any kids picking my pocket without me knowing.

One of my greatest fears is a kid getting hurt because they got a hold of one of my guns.
 
TO be clear, when you say "striker fired" you are ONLY talking about the modern striker fired, no safety lever (lock) types that have a "trigger activation switch"? (such as the Glock, etc.)

Because in my mind, when I hear "striker fired" as a class, that includes many more designs than that. My Luger is striker fired!

That being said, I am on the other side of the coin when it comes to the safetyless striker fired types. Not only am I NOT 100% comfortable with them around kids, I'm not 100% comfortable with them around certain adults!!!

Small children can "operate" an amazing amount of things on the monkey see, monkey do system. But it isn't until they get a bit older that they get to the "monkey understand" level.

My son, at age 4, "drove" his grandfathers LTD. (Grampa left the keys in it)
He opened the door, which was larger and heavier than he was, got in, turned the key to "run", and put the (now unlocked) gearshift in Drive!

The engine did not start, ONLY because my son had not turned the key ALL the way to start (monkey did not understand that part, yet, but DID understand you needed to turn the key before you could put it in gear)

Another case, young lad, 5 or 6 (wife's brother) fired a .22 rife into the floor of his home, when left unsupervised. He got the gun (.22 bolt action) from a closet, got the bolt from a dresser drawer and got the ammo from a high shelf he had to stack things up and climb up on to reach.

He assembled the rifle (put the bolt in it), put a round in it, and fired it!! FORTUNATELY no one was hurt.

Kids can do AMAZING things, way more than you think they can, when they have both the desire, and the opportunity. Don't "kid" yourself about that!!

I grew up in a home with at least one loaded, totally unsecured gun. So did my kids. So did (as far as I can determine) every generation of my family back to the early 1700s.

My kids got taught at early ages what real guns were, and they saw first hand how real guns turn real living things into real dead things. They got taught that if they didn't know how (or physically couldn't operate the action) to check to see if it was loaded, they left it completely alone.

Remove the mystery, and "forbidden fruit" isn't attractive anymore.

Sadly, today, most parents either don't know, don't have the opportunity, or simply don't take the time and effort to properly train their children about firearms, or a great many other things.

Also, "neighbor kids" never had unsupervised run of the house, and not just because there were guns there.

Lock up your loaded gun, if its not on your person. Lock up unloaded guns if its your preference. Lock up your ammo, and it can't load an unlocked gun.

If your loving rug rats and house apes are using you for a jungle gym or climbing wall, and you are wearing a loaded gun, then a "striker fired no safety" pistol with a loaded chamber, in anything less than a full flap buckled shut holster is a level of risk I am happy to avoid.
 
No. It does matter if it's striker, DAO, SAO, or DA/SA. I've always kept my gun next to my bed with a loaded magazine and empty chamber. I've also talked to my kids about guns. I always told them they could hold my guns when ever they wanted as long as I was present. Removing the curiosity seems to have been a big help for me at least.

I still keep my nightstand gun in this condition even though my kids are almost 15 and older. If kids are spending the night and my wife and I are not going to be home while they are there. I either take it with me or goes in one of the safes until I get home. I talked my dad into keeping his gun in this condition and still does since there always seemed to be grand kids over there.
 
If you have to keep a gun on a shelf in the closet, whatever it takes.
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Kids can climb like monkeys. If its not on you it needs to be locked in some manner.

To those who note-train your child, that doesn't take into account all the other kids that may get in your house over time.

EDIT: Walt Sherrill beat me to it, with a better more detailed reply.
 
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OP here again...

First, thanks for all of your responses and critiques. I welcome these, and we all should.

A few of you have asked for specifics with the attitude of wanting be more helpful, which I appreciate.

I carry a Glock 21 in a IWB holster that has a thumbstrap.

The incident that occurred which got me thinking was specifically this...

My four year old son surprised me as I walked through the front door after work. He does this every day, it is the best part of my day. However, this time is the first time that he has jumped on me from a ledge that is near our front door. He was perfectly silent, and to his credit, it was a well-executed bit of kid-stalking. :)
When he jumped on my back, he slid down my waist, and his right hand was searching for something to grab, and somehow, he was accidentally able to get the thumbstrap off, and the firearm did NOT move one iota, but again, like I said in my original post, the same "just in case" thinking that causes each of us to carry is the same kind of thinking that caused me to think "just in case" for safety.

For full disclosure - whenever my kids want to wrestle, they know to ask first, because they know that I will then go into my bedroom, disarm, and lock the firearm away in a locked safe, and then wrestle like a gorilla with them, complete with the gorilla noises that are mandatory whenever we wrestle ;).

At any rate, this might seem petty to some, but this is precisely what happened to get me thinking.

Thanks again for all of your responses.
 
At any rate, this might seem petty to some, but this is precisely what happened to get me thinking.
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Not at all. I think your story is a valuable one. You can be as safe as you can and give all the instruction you should, but kids still do things spontaneously as happened in your example. I'd talk about it with your son and explain why it can be a concern. Beyond that, you could consider a holster that offers more of a locking mechanism. I like the Safariland ALS.
 
JSMidd said:
When he jumped on my back, he slid down my waist, and his right hand was searching for something to grab, and somehow, he was accidentally able to get the thumbstrap off, and the firearm did NOT move one iota, but again, like I said in my original post, the same "just in case" thinking that causes each of us to carry is the same kind of thinking that caused me to think "just in case" for safety.
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If anything, it might be a good plug for your holster! Getting mugged by a midget, but keeping retention of your pistol is actually a good thing:D Seriously, a valid concern from a father. If the loaded chamber is a concern, maybe change your TTPs (Tactics, Techniques and Procedures), and consider removing the chambered round as soon as you get home (like in the vehicle)?

ROCK6
 
I think the safety kind of is a non-issue, if the person (kid) knows how to pick up a gun and fire if, they probably know how to operate a safety or can figure it out rather quickly. I have a 7 year old brother who lives with me, and I keep a handgun in my nightstand. He knows not to touch any of my guns and that guns are dangerous and can kill something with one shot, but just in case, I leave the gun with an empty chamber. Because I know for a fact that he doesn't have the strength to grab the grip and cock it, chambering a round. I do this just in case him ornone of his friends get any hair brained ideas when I am gone or at work.

Safeties are easy to figure out, they only have 2 settings and usually a red mark for fire, kids could easily figure this out. I think it is a good precaution to either leave your loaded gun/s unnaccesable (like in a biometric safe or locked safe) or leave it not chambered. Most kids under 10-12 probably can't pull back a 14-25lb recoil spring to chamber a round
 
I have a 7 year old brother who lives with me, and I keep a handgun in my nightstand. He knows not to touch any of my guns and that guns are dangerous and can kill something with one shot, but just in case, I leave the gun with an empty chamber. Because I know for a fact that he doesn't have the strength to grab the grip and cock it, chambering a round. I do this just in case him ornone of his friends get any hair brained ideas when I am gone or at work.
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Are you saying that you leave a gun, unsecured, in the house with an unsupervised 7 year old who knows where it is, while you're at work? Additionally, the post could be read to mean you have a full magazine or cylinder with an empty chamber....here are a few possibilities....

If that's correct, how can you guarantee he won't take it out to show his buddies; that they won't take it outside; that a neighbor doesn't see them playing around and call the police in; that they won't beg, borrow or steal the correct ammunition; that one of them is actually strong enough to chamber a round...the possibilities are nearly endless. And every one of them scares me to death.
 
Rodfac,

Why don't you worry about your own business. My brother does not know there is a gun in my nightstand drawer, and he knows to stay out of my room. There is always somebody here watching him, to make sure he doesnt get it ir touch it or play with it. Unfortunately I don't have the ability to lock my bedroom door, or else I would, and eliminate this "risk" all together. I keep the pistol in my night and drawer because the only other option is my small gunsafe, which is across my room. I would rather keep it right by my head in easy access, just have to pull it out of the tight fitting hybrid holster, chamber a round and it's ready to go; than to have to look for my key to my gun safe, walk over to my gun safe, insert the key, twist, open the door, and grab the handgun. This just is not practical. The pistol is for the rare occurrence of a break in or home invasion. The several extra seconds it takes to get the gun out of the safe may be too much.

Besides my Concealed handgun permit has not arrived yet or my primary defense pistol would be with me at work until I got home, then cycle repeated
 
P71... I can't add anything to my previous post that would help you...Good luck with your safety procedures. Your trust in that 7 year old and his friends is very touching. I hope it works out for you. Best regards, Rod
 
Bottom line, only you can determine what you consider safe for you and your family. It's a fine balance and always has been.
 
This is not a personal attack, and not meant to be disrespectful P71pilot, but as a responsible gun owner committed to preserving the right to be one, I kind of think that rodfac is minding our own business to be perfectly honest with you.

Just a thought, what about possibly securing your pistol in the safe across the room at times when you're not at home, but then returning it to the nightstand for easy access when you are there to monitor who does and does not gain access to it.
There are no guarantees and often what we regard as inconceivable manifests in the blink of an eye.
I know that I could not live with the guilt I would feel if I were responsible for the potential tragedy that your current practices make a real possibility.
I'm betting that it would be seen that I did in fact live with it, getting three square meals a day in a tiny room with bars and the rest of my days to wallow in that unbearable guilt.

only you can determine what you consider safe for you and your family
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... you... along with a judge and a jury.
We have a responsibility to ourselves and our loved ones first, and then to every other responsible gun owner out there and their families, and so on... just sayin.
 
P71pilot said:
I don't have the ability to lock my bedroom door, or else I would, and eliminate this "risk" all together. I keep the pistol in my night and drawer because the only other option is my small gunsafe, which is across my room. I would rather keep it right by my head in easy access, just have to pull it out of the tight fitting hybrid holster, chamber a round and it's ready to go; than to have to look for my key to my gun safe, walk over to my gun safe, insert the key, twist, open the door, and grab the handgun.
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I think you've taken the long route to get where you want to go. Use the gunsafe during the day, and your bedside drawer at night. I agree that you shouldn't have to struggle with a gun safe when things go bump in the night.

That said, try this: keep the key for the gun safe on your key ring, have the safe near where you undress, unlock it at night and put the gun in your bedside table as you get ready for bed. Then, when you wake up, put the gun back in the safe and lock it, as you dress.

If your house is ever broken into, one of the places burglars look for guns is in bedside drawers and closets. Stolen guns probably get them more money than TVs or computers. (I know of two guys who lost guns that way -- even though they had gun safes in the same room.)
 
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