An anti-NRA thread..or "The NRA does NOT compromise"

PP:
You have the rights you do BECAUSE of that document.
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Those "inborn" rights, as you call them, are there whether a Constitution comes along or doesn't. If they really exist, they belong to every human drawing air. There is the little detail of incarceration (imprisonment) and the death penalty and that cannot be ignored when debating absolute rights. However, first, everyone is borne with the right to exist until they prove they don't deserve that right, according to society. Because of these examples, I think it would be very difficult for anyone to defend the "absolute" nature of any right, natural borne or not.

I think there are two different points here that may be confused in the discussion. There are privileges granted us by society and we may lose those privileges, based on non-compliance with society's rules. There are rights you are borne with and may have these rights removed, also based on non-compliance with society's rules. Those privileges mentioned above are called "rights" by many. I wasn't particular about that until I started hearing about a new right on the evening news every day. My point is this: just because society can remove a right you were borne with doesn't mean you weren't borne with that right. The similarity in process of how you may lose a right, or some privileges granted by the gov't, does not define how your rights, and some privileges, were gained in the first instance.
The document does not exist because of inborn rights.
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I may have missed it, but I didn't see anyone make that claim or insinuate it.
 
Playboypenguin

Ever here of those things called amendments? They are changes to the constitution. You cannot say something is unbending yet can be changed. It is contradictory.

Sure you can. It is not changed by time. It has never changed in meaning even if people wish to try and change the meaning of the words in todays world. It IS unbending. However it CAN be changed through a special process (amendments). That is the only method that can change it. Anything else is just putting a facade on it to fit their beliefs. The underlying structure or meaning does not change.

As much as people would like to think, it is NOT a "living document". It is a large heavy piece of steel. It takes alot of effort, cooperation, time, and resources to change it. Until people collectivly feel the need to make that change, it is stuck in its current form.
 
PP & Danzig - You've got a good discussion going, keep on keeping it on the high road. :)

PlayboyPenguin said:
You have the rights you do BECAUSE of that document. You live the life you do because the founding fathers of this country and it's citizens fought to secure them for you and then sat down and established a system to protect those rights.
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So would it be fair to say that the people who lived here under the Mayflower Compact all the way through to the Articles of Confederation didn't have any of the rights that were "granted" by the U.S. Constitution? If that is your position, I disagree.

Every human being has the right to self defense. Every single one regardless of age everywhere in the world, every socio-economic group, everyone from prisoners to kings have the right to self-preservation. Please show me where in the Constitution it enumerates that right? If it doesn't, then by your argument it doesn't exist. Right?

-Dave
 
Administrators..

this thread has strayed off topic but I am not displeased with the discussion that has ensued. Please do not close the thread for being off topic.

Thanks,

Danzig
 
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