An anti amongst us: play nice

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Oh, one other point. Tell this flaming a** that we were sooo impressed over here with the NATO (or was it UN?) safe areas established in Bosnia and Croatia. You remember ... the areas where civilians were disarmed, and they coincidentially found those mass graves later? Great job there, Helge. Glad you were on watch, bucko.

Regards from AZ

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited July 14, 2000).]
 
Hey people! We are supposed to play nice, not insult the guy! Calling the man a "jerk" and an "a**" is the quickest way to ensure he heartily believes every stereotype about gunowners.

This man said absolutely nothing impolite!
 
If the rest of the world is so much more civilized than the US, how come he "has fought" in so many places? Further, where is it written that wearing the blue helmet elevates the wearer to god-like status?

Humbug

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
I grew up on the CA NV boarder. Spent one heck of a lot of time in NV.... What this guy is telling us about the wild west is just plain hogwash. I don't believe a word he says. Others can waste their time with him, but I won't. I don't deal with liers.



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Richard

The debate is not about guns,
but rather who has the ultimate power to rule,
the People or Government.
RKBA!
 
Having read HelgeS' post, I wonder what part of Germany he is from? He sounds like he grew up in East Germany rather than the West.

Boston an example of the 22nd century? Maybe his vision of the 22 century is one where elitist government runs everyones lives.

In my 52 years on this earth I have never had a gun pointed at me in anger, except for the three years I spent in Germany.

What was he doing in Nevada to have a farmer point a shotgun at him?

I smell a Rat.


Geoff Ross

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One reason to vote in the next Presidential election.

It's the Supreme Court, Stupid!

[This message has been edited by K80Geoff (edited July 14, 2000).]
 
Look the guy was raised a socialist. He does not realize that rewards come with risks. To be wealthy, you must be willing to lose everything in the process. To be free, there will be some who use guns for the wrong things and accidents will happen.

If he wants to exist in a world where multinational peace-keeping forces disarm civillians and allow them to be killed, raped and maimed, that's his perrogative. As for me, I will defend myself and my family and not leave it up to some emasculated force in Blue Berets giving penicillin shots and fixing fences.

Really, I've had it with Europeans. I don't care how they do it over there. If they don't like our system then don't come over here at all. Don't take advantage of our nice shopping malls. Don't use our superior health care system and defend your own socialist posterior the next time trouble comes knocking. By the way, we have bailed their sorry rearends out of two wars and those we did'nt help, we defeated. I'm sick of these arrogant socialists who berate our freedoms. They need to realize that the reason they are free in the first place is because of the blood, sweat and tears of our Grandfathers and Grandmothers. WE not the rest of the world rebuilt Germany. This chaaracter would not be where he is today if it were not for America.

I don't care what this person thinks of me or my right to bear arms. If I am in Germany, you can bet I won't criticize how they run their affairs and he should'nt question ours either. We kicked their rear ends twice and maybye it's time for another dose. Any questions?

He buddy: you're not welcome! How dare you belittle my land. Nevada is a great place to hang your hat. My family and friends suffered immensley at the hands of your people and frankly I hope you carry your tail back to Germany. If I had my way about it your Grandparents would have been locked up in the same Camps where they slaughtered millions of innocent people.

I'm sick of being nice.

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."

[This message has been edited by Will Beararms (edited July 14, 2000).]
 
Will Beararms, I like to think that this country was built by Europeans who had the good sense to leave that dungheap and come here to do it right.

Geoff Ross

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One reason to vote in the next Presidential election.

It's the Supreme Court, Stupid!

[This message has been edited by K80Geoff (edited July 14, 2000).]
 
Lets see now...we fought two major world wars with the Germans to restrain them from world enslavement and domination of us poor dumb slobs. Think I be hanging onto my firearms your ladyship...never know when the Hun will decide its time to take on the world again.
 
Yep, as I was reading, I was just thinking that it sounds like a "plant".

Hmmm, let's see: I would guess he's from one or more of these: BATF/FBI/UN/NWO -- and whatever else.

He's clearly coming from a socialist, elitist, slave-to-government mindset that most true-blue, freedom-loving Americans would find objectionable. It's sad that he just doesn't understand.

I would suggest an in-depth study of American history, but e-mail "discussions" are a real pain. Let him remain an unarmed minion, and maybe "invite" him to return to Germany.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jack M:
You sure that post is not just some bait thrown out to get a response?

[This message has been edited by Jack M (edited July 14, 2000).][/quote]
 
Having spent a few years in Germany myself I would like to a say a little something about the german mindset.
1-On the whole a very violent race.In groups wearing uniforms they are fearless.
2- Had a GI picked up by German police.When we got him back both of his forearms where solid cigarete burns.
3-Had a taxi driver tell me that if they ever got control of there own nuc's they would start WW3.
4-Had a friend going witha German girl.He would go the front door her father would go out the back door.Ex SS oficer.
German mentality scares me.They allway know how everyone should live and act and are not afraid to force them to live that way.
Working for nato and the un would be right up their ally.A force that wants to tell the whole world how to live and what to do.
That my opinion and I'm not humble about it.
Bob


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Age and deceit will overcome youth and speed.
I'm old and deceitful.
 
Spent some time in Germany myself. A few observations:
1. Very friendly folks, if you take the time to get to know them. You might even try learning some of their language. They speak ours rather well.
2. Great beer.
3. Very proud of most of their history, and eternally ashamed of the rest.

beemerb writes:
>>>German mentality scares me.They allway know how everyone should live and act and are not afraid to force them to live that way.<<<
How is that different than the current state of affairs in the good old US of A? We are simply sneakier about it than the Germans.

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Panzerführer

Die Wahrheit ist eine Perle. Werfen sie nicht vor die Säue.

Those that beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those that don't.
 
I hate to break it to you people, but just because someone supports "gun control" doesn't mean we should start demonizing them, calling them liars, Nazis, and everything else. If I was this guy, I would conclude most of you are rude people who can't make a coherent argument, and rely on slander instead. I would leave this board with a light heart, convinced that the gun rights movement is laughable.

[This message has been edited by BTR (edited July 15, 2000).]
 
Then how about this...gun control in Germany once led to disarming a sect of people who couldn't risist the brutish thugery of a uniformed majority who's leader had a little paint brush under his nose. These minions in uniform were only following orders to direct box car loads of minorities into death camps and the awaiting gas chambers. In this country we have the Constitutional right to bear arms but it is being chipped away gradually by the gun control crowd. When they finally get the guns taken away, and you find yourself not in favor with the controllers (the rulers) your situation can become perlous to the point of your demise.

The writers of the Constitution and other National documents (Bill of Rights) have in their wisdom forseen the eventual corruptness that is possible in all governments. It all boils down to those who have the guns...have the power over others...look at history if you don't believe it. And those who don't have the guns are responsible for not voting out the anti gun control crowd.
 
You know, you're right we should'nt attack someone just because they favor gun control. However when someone from Germany attacks this nation, an outsider from a nation that has a proven history of wreaking havoc, I am going to pull out all of the stobs, sorry.

Yes, Europeans built this country and my ancestors came from their but how many world wars do we need to realize that Germany must always be closely scrutinized? I am realtively young (36) and it scares mehow we have forgotten what happened. Forget about the John Wayne Movies, the Wehrmact, not just the SS was a violent, force killing innocent women and children for the fun of it. Ask any Greek, Russian or Polish person who resisted them and survived and you will find out.

Again, I am sick of Euros spouting off about our system. Get the heck out and go back to your miserable health care, high unemployment, high fuel costing country and leave us to our own devices.

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
 
HelgeS-

Three observations on your comments:

1. At no point were you actually harmed. If you were, you lacked any means to resist the harm. (Notice police were never around when needed.) You have the God-given right to protect yourself and have appropriate tools; so does everyone else.

2. The difference between MIT and a barroom brawl has nothing to do with arms, but with the intellectual and social caliber of people present. If everyone at MIT were armed, it would still have been the 22nd Century utopia you saw.

3. Mexico and other large countries also have strict no-gun laws, and yet have violence rates far exceeding the US. This cancels out your "disarmed country = peace" theory. Far more has to do with the social age of the country (US and Mexico are young, Europe is old) and ethnic purity (European countries are largely pure; the US is highly varied and thus faces problems comparable to the Balklands).
 
panzer
How many time has the USA attempted to take over the world?How many times has Germany tried?
Two world wars should prove something.
The denile of what happened in WW 1 is great. This comes from germans.
1-We didn't know about the camps
2-Look at the jewish population,there wasn't 6 million jews at the time how could we have killed 6 million
3-there are more fireams in german civilian hand then anyone thinks.This came from a friend who lived on the economy there for a year.Lots of WW2 weapons.
Yes the beer is good but what has that have to do with what we are talking about.
The allso make good cars and motorcycles but that has nothing to do with this discussion
either.


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Age and deceit will overcome youth and speed.
I'm old and deceitful.
 
Good Morning Everyone-

Is our new friend HelgeS still with us? I haven't seen a single post from this gentleman. Methinks we're speaking amongst ourselves! ;)

Can someone provide a link to the "Julie thread" so we can gain some background on this whole discussion?

Regards to all,

~ Blue Jays ~
 
beemerb, my post had about as much to do with the thread as yours did - little to nothing. I simply don't care to see the Germans or anybody else hung out to dry.

The US taking over the world. Hmm, there are other types of warfare besides military. The US is as bent on world conquest as anyone else. As I pointed out previously, we are simply sneakier about it.

As for denial of WWI events, what on Earth are you talking about? WWII maybe? The Germans deny nothing. The other part of their history for which they are eternally ashamed is of course, the National Socialist era. If they are in such denial, how come reparations are being paid to Holocaust survivors? How come the current government is apologizing ad infinitum for the deeds of the previous government?

Are you still watching the Russians too, beemerb? They killed as many if not more, and many of their own citizens as well.

Let's not forget the US incarceration of Japanese-Americans either.

My point, beemerb, is that nobody's closet is clean. I don't wish for this to degenerate into a flame-fest, but dig deep enough into any group, and you will find those skeletons.

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Panzerführer

Die Wahrheit ist eine Perle. Werfen sie nicht vor die Säue.

Those that beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those that don't.
 
I love what this guy said about only "qualified People" owning guns. Sounds very elitist if you ask me. I'm a graduate student in Engineering working on my Ph.D. and I've met so many so called "educated people" at my university who have the common sense of a stone. Most of these people don't have any idea about our rights in this country and look at the Second Amendment as some barbaric part of the constitution that should be ignored. My father is from Europe and was an electrician in the air force of a NATO country. He came here with some very socialistic attitudes, but in the past 30 years has realizes the error of his ways. I'd say he has more of an inkling of what this country is all about than most of the "educated" people I've met do. As for NATO, it has outlived its usefullness and should be dissolved.

Now about gun laws, even someone with a physics degree should be able to see that the best way to prevent crime is to stop it at the source; the criminal/victim interaction. The best form of crime control is an armed victim stopping the perp BEFORE they can commit the crime. Police are historians in most cases and the prospect of coming into contact with an armed victim is probably more intimidating than 5 to ten years in prison with free cable. Scaling up, the best form of tyranny control is an armed populace able to resist the Hitler or Stalin who may come to power and kill his own people. Privately owned, unregistered and unlicensed machine guns, I'm all for it.

By the way, that attitude of yours, "if you hurt my feelings, I'm going to tell" is childish. If you come to a Pro-Bill of Rights forum like this one and cast all law abiding gun owners in a poor light, expect to get some less than courteous responses.

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The first step is registration, the second step is confiscation, the final step is subjugation.
 
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