An All Round Rifle for North America?
- Thread starter Hard Ball
- Start date
30-06 165 gr spbt bullets can kill a wide wide variety of game. You can also load a 30-06 with a saboted 22 cal bullet giving you a wieght range of 55 to 220 grains. Read that as Versatile. You urban commandos should not overlook the availability of inexpensive AP and tracer ammo available for the 06 as well.
My 06's are savages and a remington springfield 03a3. If you want a semi auto the garand isn't on anyones list YET but it served two wars with distinction. That should count for something.
308 runs a close second if big moose and bear are off the list and "defensive" use is more your game. With FAL's and M1a's all over the place the 308 is THE battle rifle cartridge.
My 06's are savages and a remington springfield 03a3. If you want a semi auto the garand isn't on anyones list YET but it served two wars with distinction. That should count for something.
308 runs a close second if big moose and bear are off the list and "defensive" use is more your game. With FAL's and M1a's all over the place the 308 is THE battle rifle cartridge.
Well, I guess I'll just have to jump in here.
I'm somewhat torn between the .308 Win. and 30-06. The .308 can handle just about any bullet that the 06 will, and I do include the 220 gr. round nose in that group. The 06 shoots the 220 at a bit over 2400 FPS in my rifle, and the .308 with my handload does 2340 FPS. That's not a heck of a lot of difference.
My final answer? The 30-06. I have a friend, who is a retired Alaskan guide. He carried a .338 Win. Mag. He said there were more good clean kills with the 30-06 on Brown Bear, that from most od the dudes carrying big magnums that kicked. Yet, I read in some of the gun rags where guides now insist on the dude carrying a .338 Mag. or larger.
Would I feel better carrying a .338 or larger, if I was to be fortunate enough to hunt brown Bear? Probably. Would I feel undergunned using my .308 with a proper handload? Absolutely not. I would try for good shot though, or hold off if I did not like the positioning. If I was charged, a
40MM cannon would feel too small.
But then, I'll probably never hunt one of the large bears anyway. Never have really had the desire to.
Paul B.
I'm somewhat torn between the .308 Win. and 30-06. The .308 can handle just about any bullet that the 06 will, and I do include the 220 gr. round nose in that group. The 06 shoots the 220 at a bit over 2400 FPS in my rifle, and the .308 with my handload does 2340 FPS. That's not a heck of a lot of difference.
My final answer? The 30-06. I have a friend, who is a retired Alaskan guide. He carried a .338 Win. Mag. He said there were more good clean kills with the 30-06 on Brown Bear, that from most od the dudes carrying big magnums that kicked. Yet, I read in some of the gun rags where guides now insist on the dude carrying a .338 Mag. or larger.
Would I feel better carrying a .338 or larger, if I was to be fortunate enough to hunt brown Bear? Probably. Would I feel undergunned using my .308 with a proper handload? Absolutely not. I would try for good shot though, or hold off if I did not like the positioning. If I was charged, a
40MM cannon would feel too small.
But then, I'll probably never hunt one of the large bears anyway. Never have really had the desire to.
Paul B.
Y'all better hush now before my wife gets to thinkin' I can do all my huntin' with just one rifle. 
Thankfully she doesn't stop by here often.
Seriously though, my first choice would be a .338 in a Rem 700 (or 721 if they were ever made and I could find one) with a muzzle brake, ear plugs and a Leupold 3x9 or equivalent. Second choice 30-06, no muzzle brake, same rifle, same scope
How many polar bears have the Inuits killed with .22's total? How many polar bears have used the .22 as a toothpick after a nice Inuit dinner? I hope I never get that hungry.
Thankfully she doesn't stop by here often.Seriously though, my first choice would be a .338 in a Rem 700 (or 721 if they were ever made and I could find one) with a muzzle brake, ear plugs and a Leupold 3x9 or equivalent. Second choice 30-06, no muzzle brake, same rifle, same scope
How many polar bears have the Inuits killed with .22's total? How many polar bears have used the .22 as a toothpick after a nice Inuit dinner? I hope I never get that hungry.
Mike,
Yep, theres a bit of tounge n cheek their...lol......and I have to agree with you that the 30-30 has limits, range is not necessarily a limit--it more than likely means the hunter needs to be better at hunting?
I also agree with the bullet type being a big plus in non lever guns....
there are definitely flatter shooting harder hitting packages available......especially for the "plains" shooting your describing.
Personally I shoot 308/3006 and with the 3030.........it definitely isnt the best package around today--although at one time it was sufficient. Although I suppose you could say that its failures and limitations are a reason for change in the caliber and rifle type in the hunting communitys.......
just out curiosity whats your longest hunting shot at what type of animal and I mean one shot sucess?.........Im not a big hunter, but my longest on a deer was about 150 yds, maybe a bit less, with a rem700 in 308......fubsy.
Yep, theres a bit of tounge n cheek their...lol......and I have to agree with you that the 30-30 has limits, range is not necessarily a limit--it more than likely means the hunter needs to be better at hunting?
I also agree with the bullet type being a big plus in non lever guns....
there are definitely flatter shooting harder hitting packages available......especially for the "plains" shooting your describing.
Personally I shoot 308/3006 and with the 3030.........it definitely isnt the best package around today--although at one time it was sufficient. Although I suppose you could say that its failures and limitations are a reason for change in the caliber and rifle type in the hunting communitys.......
just out curiosity whats your longest hunting shot at what type of animal and I mean one shot sucess?.........Im not a big hunter, but my longest on a deer was about 150 yds, maybe a bit less, with a rem700 in 308......fubsy.
How about an improved version of one of the greatest battle implements devised by man? An Arlington Ordnance refurbished M1 Garand "Tanker" model chambered in .308 Winchester with issued iron sights and a good web sling. It has been my tool of choice for several years now and I have shot just about everything that goes "bang". I never leave home without it.
God bless America,
Paladin
[This message has been edited by Paladin (edited November 01, 2000).]
God bless America,
Paladin
[This message has been edited by Paladin (edited November 01, 2000).]
A full-sized "rifle-looking" phaser that you can turn down to stun squirrels or power up to vaporize Brown Bears.
Otherwise, as I noted on your other thread for "any hunting anywhere world", it doesn't exist unless there are custom .458/.22/12gauge tri-barrels out there.
Seriously though, I'd choose a .223 AR with .22 conversion kit. You can still eat the rabbits and, with skill, take elk.
Otherwise, as I noted on your other thread for "any hunting anywhere world", it doesn't exist unless there are custom .458/.22/12gauge tri-barrels out there.
Seriously though, I'd choose a .223 AR with .22 conversion kit. You can still eat the rabbits and, with skill, take elk.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Fubsy,
Ever try stalking an antelope in open areas?
I have. Not hunting, just seeing how close we could get to the things on the open high desert in New Mexico to snap some pictures.
Unless you've got some seriously deaf, dumb, blind, and olfactory-challenged antelope, you're going to have a hard time getting into .30-30 range.
As for my longest shot on game, it was slightly over 400 yards (measured with my father's surveying equipment), a groundhog in Pennsylvania, with a Remington .223 that a friend had lent me for the season.
With my groundhog rifle, a .243 Remington, my longest was about 325.
I popped a groundhog a few years ago with a .300 Wby. Mag. at about 75 yards, using 130-gr. varmint bullets. Wasn't much left but a smear.
Farthest on deer? Estimated 80 yards paced off. Closest? About 7 yards.
Please don't get me wrong. I'm not in any way trashing the .30-30 as a hunting cartridge. But just as the .416 Wby. Mag. isn't really suitable as an all around North American rifle, the .30-30 isn't really suitable in that role, either, although either one could be pressed into service.
When you get right down to it, the "all around" rifle is really a series of compromises and accommodations. You give up performance in one area to get performance in another area.
In the end, though, you really have one rifle that fills one or two, or if you're lucky, three, of my criteria REALLY well, and makes accommodations on the others.
Were I to hunt ALL types of game in North America, I'd want at least two, and possibly three, separate calibers.
------------------
Smith & Wesson is dead to me.
If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!
Ever try stalking an antelope in open areas?
I have. Not hunting, just seeing how close we could get to the things on the open high desert in New Mexico to snap some pictures.
Unless you've got some seriously deaf, dumb, blind, and olfactory-challenged antelope, you're going to have a hard time getting into .30-30 range.
As for my longest shot on game, it was slightly over 400 yards (measured with my father's surveying equipment), a groundhog in Pennsylvania, with a Remington .223 that a friend had lent me for the season.
With my groundhog rifle, a .243 Remington, my longest was about 325.
I popped a groundhog a few years ago with a .300 Wby. Mag. at about 75 yards, using 130-gr. varmint bullets. Wasn't much left but a smear.
Farthest on deer? Estimated 80 yards paced off. Closest? About 7 yards.
Please don't get me wrong. I'm not in any way trashing the .30-30 as a hunting cartridge. But just as the .416 Wby. Mag. isn't really suitable as an all around North American rifle, the .30-30 isn't really suitable in that role, either, although either one could be pressed into service.
When you get right down to it, the "all around" rifle is really a series of compromises and accommodations. You give up performance in one area to get performance in another area.
In the end, though, you really have one rifle that fills one or two, or if you're lucky, three, of my criteria REALLY well, and makes accommodations on the others.
Were I to hunt ALL types of game in North America, I'd want at least two, and possibly three, separate calibers.
------------------
Smith & Wesson is dead to me.
If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!