An All Round Rifle for North America?
- Thread starter Hard Ball
- Start date
I definitely agree with your choice of caliber! As for the gun, I don't know much about the Model 70, but I have a Winchester Model 670 .30-06 with a 3x9 scope that is a great little all-around hunting gun. Magnums are fine for those who want them and can handle them, but I'll stick with my '06. It'll do everything I need a hunting rifle to do.
Now, if I could just settle on an all-around handgun caliber...
DAL
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Reading "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal," by Ayn Rand, should be required of every politician and in every high school.
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."
--Patrick Henry, during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution (1788)
GOA, JPFO, PPFC, CSSA, LP, ARI, NRA
Now, if I could just settle on an all-around handgun caliber...
DAL
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Reading "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal," by Ayn Rand, should be required of every politician and in every high school.
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."
--Patrick Henry, during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution (1788)
GOA, JPFO, PPFC, CSSA, LP, ARI, NRA
) a Ruger M77 MkII Magnum chambered for Holland's venerable .375 Belted Rimless Magnum Nitro Express. WalterGAII
Moderator
Aren't Detroit, Cleveland, Atlanta, Miami in North America?? Wouldn't a Bushy Shorty carbine be a better choice for some parts of North America??
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Now, Walter. Calm down, take a Valium. 
Yeah, '06--particularly for the handloader. And particularly since there are a lot more elk, deer and coyotes than brown bear.
The "best" brand and/or model of rifle, however, is the one that feels best to you, fits you best, and with which you can shoot the best.
, Art
Yeah, '06--particularly for the handloader. And particularly since there are a lot more elk, deer and coyotes than brown bear.
The "best" brand and/or model of rifle, however, is the one that feels best to you, fits you best, and with which you can shoot the best.
, ArtWalterGAII
Moderator
Art: The next time you have a flat tire, having made a wrong turn from one of the major urban airports, at 3:00 a.m., my post won't seem so hysterical.
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Shoot to kill; they'll stop when they're dead!
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Shoot to kill; they'll stop when they're dead!
Mike Irwin
Staff
My choice would probably be a Remington 700 in either 7mm Mag. or .300 Mag.
Other excellent all-around choices would be the .270 and .300 Wby. Mags.
Those have enough power for elk, moose, and even bear, but aren't totally overpowered on deer.
They also have decent range for western plains hunting.
Good alternative calibers in non-magnum cartridges would be:
.270 Win.
.25-06 Rem.
.30-06
.308 Win.
These are a bit lacking in power for the largest game, though, but with proper bullets and shot placement will give really credible results.
Other contenders could also be:
.35 Whelen or .350 Rem. Mag. (good for larger game, but lacking somewhat for western game)
6.5 Rem. Mag. (good for plains, but a bit more suspect on larger game)
.338 Win. Mag. and .340 Wby. Mag. (these are starting to get overpowered for deer-sized game, and bullet drop is a problem for longer ranges. Great elk and bear cartridges, though.)
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Smith & Wesson is dead to me.
If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!
Other excellent all-around choices would be the .270 and .300 Wby. Mags.
Those have enough power for elk, moose, and even bear, but aren't totally overpowered on deer.
They also have decent range for western plains hunting.
Good alternative calibers in non-magnum cartridges would be:
.270 Win.
.25-06 Rem.
.30-06
.308 Win.
These are a bit lacking in power for the largest game, though, but with proper bullets and shot placement will give really credible results.
Other contenders could also be:
.35 Whelen or .350 Rem. Mag. (good for larger game, but lacking somewhat for western game)
6.5 Rem. Mag. (good for plains, but a bit more suspect on larger game)
.338 Win. Mag. and .340 Wby. Mag. (these are starting to get overpowered for deer-sized game, and bullet drop is a problem for longer ranges. Great elk and bear cartridges, though.)
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Smith & Wesson is dead to me.
If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Well, Walter, in that circumstance, ya done quit huntin' and gone to defending! In which case, Arnold S.'s "Commando" character was under-gunned, under-equipped, and under-muscled. I think a whole bunch of grenades might be handy, too...
, Art
PS: Back to the subject of this thread, huh, huh?
, ArtPS: Back to the subject of this thread, huh, huh?
FWIW, a few weeks ago on the Sunday radio show "Gun Talk", Tom Gresham was asked this very question. I figured he would mention one of his favorites, such as .308, or .30-06. To my surprise he responded without hesitation, "The .7mm-08 is the best all-around hunting round for North American."
I still like .308 myself.
Rick
I still like .308 myself.
Rick
Mike Irwin
Staff
You know, I was thinking about throwing it in, so what the hell...
The 7mm Mauser or the 6.5x55 would also be extremely good choices as an all-around rifle.
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Smith & Wesson is dead to me.
If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!
The 7mm Mauser or the 6.5x55 would also be extremely good choices as an all-around rifle.
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Smith & Wesson is dead to me.
If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!
Nevada Fitch
New member
Well, I just love to talk about this kind of subject.IF I had to choose one rifle and I also handloaded which I do by the way. IT might be a 338Win Mag in a Remington 700 Classic.I would load it down a little for deer.And use full loads for every thing else.If I did not Handload I would probably choose the 30/06 in the same rifle.IF I had to choose from the rifles I have now at this time.It would be a tie between my 350RemMag. or my 375HHMag both in the Rem.Classic rifle.Darn I guess If I have to choose between them I will go with the 375HHMag with a Leupold 1.75X6 VARI-X III scope and never look back.This particular rifle is pretty light for a 375 I acually believe it is lighter than most 7Mags I have seen lately.Recoil has never bothered me in it.It is a little heavy for deer or antelope And just fine for everything else.It has all of the range I can Handle and certainly all the power I need.I do believe with this gun you can truly hunt anything that walks anywhere in the world.I have Killed several deer with it by the way and excessive meat distruction was not a problem as long as shots were resonably well placed.And I have always heard that shot placement is the key to killing any game animal and I agree.But I also Know that I have a hard time letting stuff walk if the perfect shot doesn't present itself.And I think that if most people are honest they will say the same.IF you have killed lots of big game like elk and have the opportunity to hunt them often maybe you can wait for the perfect shot.I am not lucky enough to be able to do that.And in that case a big gun with plenty of bullet weight and penetration will bail your butt out a little out more often than the neadle blowers will.And just to set the record straight I am not somebody who shoots game all around the edges and than blames the gun for not killing the game.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Fubsy,
The Inuit are known to take polar bear with .22 LR or .22 Hornet.
That certainly doesn't make those "all around" calibers.
I think the following criteria apply to an "all around" rifle.
1. Powerful enough to take mule deer, elk, moose, or perhaps if you really want to push it, a grizzly bear.
2. Flat shooting enough that it will serve well in the open lands of the west, where 300 yard shots on antelope aren't uncommon.
3. No so powerful that it needlessly wastes meat on a 100 to 120 lb. whitetail.
4. A rifle that you'd be willing to take groundhog hunting, just to stay in practice for hunting season.
5. A rifle that doesn't recoil so much that you're afraid to shoot it.
All of the calibers I listed in my first post qualify, in my opinion. The .338 is pushing the upper boundaries, while the .25s/6mms are beginning to want for power on the larger animals.
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Smith & Wesson is dead to me.
If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!
The Inuit are known to take polar bear with .22 LR or .22 Hornet.
That certainly doesn't make those "all around" calibers.
I think the following criteria apply to an "all around" rifle.
1. Powerful enough to take mule deer, elk, moose, or perhaps if you really want to push it, a grizzly bear.
2. Flat shooting enough that it will serve well in the open lands of the west, where 300 yard shots on antelope aren't uncommon.
3. No so powerful that it needlessly wastes meat on a 100 to 120 lb. whitetail.
4. A rifle that you'd be willing to take groundhog hunting, just to stay in practice for hunting season.
5. A rifle that doesn't recoil so much that you're afraid to shoot it.
All of the calibers I listed in my first post qualify, in my opinion. The .338 is pushing the upper boundaries, while the .25s/6mms are beginning to want for power on the larger animals.
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Smith & Wesson is dead to me.
If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!
For all around I would vote for my 25-35 win. 94 or rem. 7mm rolling block. Both seem to work well for more differant critters than my other guns do. Plus both point for off hand shooting very well. From rodents to elk they seem to do ok and dont make hamburger out of the blacktails like a 06 or 7mag does.
Mike Irwin,
whats that about criteria......lol...ones mans 22 is one mans all around caliber...lol.....
I dont think there's too much their that the 30-30 cant do, and since Ive no experience with bears or moose Id say that that end of the spectrum is were the caliber falls short.
I recall discussions were folks shooting the now "obsolete" or under powered calibers by todays magnum standards seemed to hunt successfully. Of course an argument could be made that what failures existed using the less powerful cartridges were do the hunters inability to "hunt" or to shoot for proper placement, and there will be those who will contend that the caliber was responsible for the failure, and in cases it would be so. Some of those failures might have been addressed by the wildcats developing the flatter trajectory (which is a definite plus for the longer shots), and the more weight/bullet design of today for the penetration needed for the anchoring shot.......btw, what type of back up are the inuit using?....sounds like a fur hunter to me, or a subsistence hunter,not wanting to destroy meat or draw attention....lol..fubsy.
whats that about criteria......lol...ones mans 22 is one mans all around caliber...lol.....
I dont think there's too much their that the 30-30 cant do, and since Ive no experience with bears or moose Id say that that end of the spectrum is were the caliber falls short.
I recall discussions were folks shooting the now "obsolete" or under powered calibers by todays magnum standards seemed to hunt successfully. Of course an argument could be made that what failures existed using the less powerful cartridges were do the hunters inability to "hunt" or to shoot for proper placement, and there will be those who will contend that the caliber was responsible for the failure, and in cases it would be so. Some of those failures might have been addressed by the wildcats developing the flatter trajectory (which is a definite plus for the longer shots), and the more weight/bullet design of today for the penetration needed for the anchoring shot.......btw, what type of back up are the inuit using?....sounds like a fur hunter to me, or a subsistence hunter,not wanting to destroy meat or draw attention....lol..fubsy.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Fubsy,
The .30-30 is, rightly so, one of the most popular hunting cartridges ever produced in this country.
But, I don't believe that it is a true all-around cartridge.
Looking at my criteria.
1. Yes, it will do this, but it is, at best, marginal. VERY marginal on the larger animals. Shot placement must be absolutely exact, or you run the risk of simply wounding a larger animal and having it escape.
With bullets such as the Barnes X the .30-30 becomes better able to handle larger animals. Bullet failure is one of the big reasons why the .30-30 wasn't really a gun for large animals. Most of the bullets available were lightly constructed for good performance on smaller animals at modest velocities. On larger animals they'd tend to over deform or break up.
2. The .30-30 really is a 150 yard gun, at best. The types of rifles it is chambered in, the requirement for most rifles that the bullet be flat point or round nose, and the modest velocity all conspire against it being a good plains rifle. Close up, though, it will roll an antelope or mule deer very nicely.
3. This is where the .30-30 absolutely shines.
4. I've whacked quite a few ground hog with the .30-30s kissing cousin, the .32 Winchester Special. It's fun.
5. I can't say that I care much for how the Winchester stock is designed (I feel that it amplifies felt recoil) but in a Marlin it's a very nice set up.
My assessment of the .30-30? A great cartridge for eastern woodlands hunting, but not truly an all-around setup for anything in North America.
I'd pick my .300 Savage ahead of the .30-30 by a LONG margin.
As for the Inuit... Back up? You're joking, right? Many of them were probably lucky to be able to afford a box of ammo every year. They are/were subsistence hunting, but that's beside the point. Their success with the small calibers (using eye shots, normally) still doesn't make the small gun an all around, or even suitable, choice.
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Smith & Wesson is dead to me.
If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!
[This message has been edited by Mike Irwin (edited November 01, 2000).]
The .30-30 is, rightly so, one of the most popular hunting cartridges ever produced in this country.
But, I don't believe that it is a true all-around cartridge.
Looking at my criteria.
1. Yes, it will do this, but it is, at best, marginal. VERY marginal on the larger animals. Shot placement must be absolutely exact, or you run the risk of simply wounding a larger animal and having it escape.
With bullets such as the Barnes X the .30-30 becomes better able to handle larger animals. Bullet failure is one of the big reasons why the .30-30 wasn't really a gun for large animals. Most of the bullets available were lightly constructed for good performance on smaller animals at modest velocities. On larger animals they'd tend to over deform or break up.
2. The .30-30 really is a 150 yard gun, at best. The types of rifles it is chambered in, the requirement for most rifles that the bullet be flat point or round nose, and the modest velocity all conspire against it being a good plains rifle. Close up, though, it will roll an antelope or mule deer very nicely.
3. This is where the .30-30 absolutely shines.
4. I've whacked quite a few ground hog with the .30-30s kissing cousin, the .32 Winchester Special. It's fun.
5. I can't say that I care much for how the Winchester stock is designed (I feel that it amplifies felt recoil) but in a Marlin it's a very nice set up.
My assessment of the .30-30? A great cartridge for eastern woodlands hunting, but not truly an all-around setup for anything in North America.
I'd pick my .300 Savage ahead of the .30-30 by a LONG margin.
As for the Inuit... Back up? You're joking, right? Many of them were probably lucky to be able to afford a box of ammo every year. They are/were subsistence hunting, but that's beside the point. Their success with the small calibers (using eye shots, normally) still doesn't make the small gun an all around, or even suitable, choice.
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Smith & Wesson is dead to me.
If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!
[This message has been edited by Mike Irwin (edited November 01, 2000).]