An accident in Mississippi

D

Doug Bowser

New member
I heard of an accident with a Model 15 S&W. The action was slicked up and there was a large ACE trigger shoe installed. The shooter had a tight fitting holster and he apparently inserted the revolver into the holster with some force. The revolver fired wounding his leg. Has anyone ever heard of this happening before? I have the ACE trigger shoe on my Model 14 but I never holster it , except in a front break Action Pistol holster.

Doug Bowser
 
Yes. If a gun came into our shop with a trigger shoe we'd take off the trigger shoe before returning the gun to the customer- those things are an AD waiting for a place to happen.
 
^^^^Absolutely.

Furthermore, a very wide target trigger installed in a gun with a standard trigger guard is another accident waiting to happen.

I have personal knowledge of two such cases; Fortunately, in both cases the bullet missed the leg.
 
Slopemeno:

I have a Colt Officers Model Match 38spl. with a Ace trigger shoe.
It rests in my gun safe, or is carried in a hard case to the range.It never see's a holster.
So I would be a little peeved if someone removed it prior to discussing it with me.Some of us do realize that a trigger, wider than the trigger guard, could pose a problem being carryed in a holster.
A little communication go's a long way towards customer satisfaction.
 
Bianchi and some other holster makers used to include warnings against using theri holsters with weapons with trigger shoes. That info has been around for about 50 years already. Common sense is not common, or it would be evident that a trigger that now extends OUTSIDE the trigger guard is no longer "guarded".
 
Trigger shoes have sort of gone out of style, but when they were more common such accidents were frequent. I had them on several guns and eventually took them off as they were a bit of a PITA and marred the trigger.

I once built a trigger stop into a trigger shoe on a 1911. It worked pretty well and avoided messing with the trigger itself or the internal parts.

Jim
 
Yes similar accidents have occured. For exactly that reason they've fallen out of favor with most shooters. The possible exception being bullseye and other target shooters who usually transport their guns in boxes and don't holster them.
 
I think that is one of the reasons why S & W changed the width of the target trigger from .500 to .400 to keep it within the width of the trigger guard
 
Grant D said:
Slopemeno:

I have a Colt Officers Model Match 38spl. with a Ace trigger shoe.
It rests in my gun safe, or is carried in a hard case to the range.It never see's a holster.
So I would be a little peeved if someone removed it prior to discussing it with me.Some of us do realize that a trigger, wider than the trigger guard, could pose a problem being carryed in a holster.
A little communication go's a long way towards customer satisfaction.
Click to expand...
I'm not Slopemeno, but I'll offer an opinion here anyway. What you are overlooking is that a gunsmith has a tremendous liability exposure. Every firearm he works on is a potential lawsuit. I'm a 1911 aficionado and I've got both of Jerry Kuhnhausen's books on gunsmithing the 1911, as well as his book on the Colt single action revolvers. Kuhnhausen frequently discusses the problem of unsafe firearms, and he recommends that gunsmiths not even touch an unsafe firearm if the owner's intent is anything other than repairing the defect(s). Kuhnhausen recommends returning the firearm untouched, with a red tag attached saying "Unsafe to Fire."

The ACE trigger shoe would appear to fall into that category. Maybe you put it on your range gun and maybe you always carry it in a hard case, but how is the gunsmith supposed to know that? Whatever happens to/with that firearm down the road, it left his shop with a potentially dangerous, non-OEM accessory installed. Just as we own every bullet we fire, the gunsmith potentially owns the liability for any firearm that leaves his shop. And that, IMHO, is a valid reason to remove the trigger shoe before returning your pistol. If you don't want him to remove the shoe, you may have to accept that he'll decline to work on your pistol in order to avoid the potential liability.
 
I have a colt trooper with a wide trigger shoe, S&W revolvers with wide triggers and a Ruger MK2 pistol with a wide Volk. trigger. These are valid for target shooting. A holster gun should have the standard trigger for obvious reasons, especially on a double action revolver, the wide trigger can cause you to pull the shot when you shoot d/a. I think that I prefer the narrow trigger even for single action target shooting. The wide trigger that extends past the trigger guard is an accident waiting to happen in a holster gun.
 
but how is the gunsmith supposed to know that?

Is it to much to assume the gunsmith has a telephone?

One phone call is all it would take to find out I understand the dangers of holstering this pistol,or if he does'nt work on pistols with them installed, don't take it in, in the first place,or inform me when you see it you can't work on it.

Am I asking to much here? I don't think a little common courtesy it that difficult to expect from a business.

And I'm in the automotive repair business so I understand liability issues.
 
Grant D said:
but how is the gunsmith supposed to know that?

Is it to much to assume the gunsmith has a telephone?

One phone call is all it would take to find out I understand the dangers of holstering this pistol,or if he does'nt work on pistols with them installed, don't take it in, in the first place,or inform me when you see it you can't work on it.

Am I asking to much here? I don't think a little common courtesy it that difficult to expect from a business.

And I'm in the automotive repair business so I understand liability issues.
Click to expand...
Since you understand the liability issues, suppose a customer brings a car into your shop with the parking brake disconnected. Not out of adjustment, not broken ... obviously disconnected such that pulling the handle doesn't accomplish anything. Your shop practice is to do a safety check of each vehicle brought in for service, so you spot this right off.

What do you do?

If you call the owner and he says, "Yeah, I worry about parking brakes dragging so I disconnected it and I don't want it connected," what's your response? Do you replace the muffler and return the vehicle with the parking brake disconnected?

Or do you tell him to come pick up his car because you can't touch it if he doesn't want the brake repaired?

I realize this isn't a perfect analog because it doesn't involve some aftermarket part that you could easily remove, but it's as close as I could come in an automobile analog.



Wait ... How about a steering wheel "spinner" knob? Those were popular when I was a teen-ager, and I believe they are now illegal in most (if not all) states. Let's assume spinners aren't legal in your state and a customer brings in a car with a spinner on the steering wheel. Do you ignore it?
 
The ACE trigger shoe would appear to fall into that category. Maybe you put it on your range gun and maybe you always carry it in a hard case, but how is the gunsmith supposed to know that? Whatever happens to/with that firearm down the road, it left his shop with a potentially dangerous, non-OEM accessory installed. Just as we own every bullet we fire, the gunsmith potentially owns the liability for any firearm that leaves his shop. And that, IMHO, is a valid reason to remove the trigger shoe before returning your pistol. If you don't want him to remove the shoe, you may have to accept that he'll decline to work on your pistol in order to avoid the potential liability.
Click to expand...

IMHO that would be fine as long as you told the gun owner that up front before accepting the gun to work on. Then it's his decision what to do with his gun.
 
The fleet farm by me keeps trigger locks on all the guns (assuming that is a shoe) but I was there last week they took out a bolt gun, opened the bolt and the bolt fell and shattered on the ground. I am thinking the trigger lock was ridding the trigger. It was just sad.

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using Tapatalk 2
 
large ACE trigger shoe installed
Click to expand...

That will do it every time.

Never ever have a gun with a trigger larger in width than the trigger guard.

That kind of trigger is just begging for 'pull me' and any 'gunsmith' worth their name should know that.

Deaf
 
A disconnected parking brake is illegal. The Ace trigger shoe is not.

I guess we should have the Government make them illegal because some people misuse them and have a accident,or wait...maybe just make the gun illegal that will solve everything!
 
If a trigger shoe helps and you want to use one, fine, but be aware of the issue and remove the shoe before you take the gun in. The smith or whoever's accepting the gun for repair shouldn't accept it until the shoe is removed.
 
First off the comparison to car repairs is only partly applicable. Yes, the shop should notify and put on the work order in bold print that the car has a problem which renders it unsafe and the owner is driving it at his/her own risk. I see it all the time.

The wheel spinner legislation you refer to is due to some dippy congressman in the '60s seeing a James Bond movie where wheels with sharp spinners on them are used to disable a spy's vehicle (or that's the rumor anyway). They are absolutely safe when properly installed, were used on road racers for years and I have a ton of Corvette and Jaguar buddies that run them in all 50 states. (I have $110,000 worth of vintage muscle cars in my garage).

Any gunsmith letting a gun leave his shop in an unsafe condition without duly noting it to the customer is open to lawsuits out the ying-yang.

You have to understand the litigious society we now live in to see why such things are necessary in business. Lawyers want you to believe you should have a risk-free life no matter how many stupid things you do to yourself.
 
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