Amount of Black Powder to use?
- Thread starter BML
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madcratebuilder
New member
I may re-evaluate my maximum loading practices.
Fingers McGee
New member
Quote Gmatov:
Not having any loading instructions for current production Uberti or older ASM Walkers to compare to; my Colt reference - The History of the Colt Revolver - says in part:
"The recess in the lower part of the barrel lug to allow the bullet to come under the rammer is large, as the arms were designed to carry a half ounce conical bullet."
and:
"The chamber capacity is approximately fifty grains of black powder, which with a conical bullet of two hundred and twenty grains makes a load that would be superior to most of the present day revolver cartridges."
Also, instructions for the 2nd Generation Colt Walkers listed the following loading data:
Grains: 35 - 55
Ball Dia: .451 - .457
Cap size: 11
Recommended grains: 50
Recommended Ball dia: .457
Now, with a round ball, chamber capacity would be more than the 50 grains; and I have loaded 60 grains and a round ball in a Uberti Walker before; but wouldnt recommend it to anyone. Was way too much to handle.
BTW - on a side note. The recommended ball dia for all 2nd Gen 36 cal pistols was .378 - .380 with recommended size of .378.
That explains why .375s never shaved a very good ring in my 2nd Gen '51 Navies and had a tendency to back out.
Not having any loading instructions for current production Uberti or older ASM Walkers to compare to; my Colt reference - The History of the Colt Revolver - says in part:
"The recess in the lower part of the barrel lug to allow the bullet to come under the rammer is large, as the arms were designed to carry a half ounce conical bullet."
and:
"The chamber capacity is approximately fifty grains of black powder, which with a conical bullet of two hundred and twenty grains makes a load that would be superior to most of the present day revolver cartridges."
Also, instructions for the 2nd Generation Colt Walkers listed the following loading data:
Grains: 35 - 55
Ball Dia: .451 - .457
Cap size: 11
Recommended grains: 50
Recommended Ball dia: .457
Now, with a round ball, chamber capacity would be more than the 50 grains; and I have loaded 60 grains and a round ball in a Uberti Walker before; but wouldnt recommend it to anyone. Was way too much to handle.
BTW - on a side note. The recommended ball dia for all 2nd Gen 36 cal pistols was .378 - .380 with recommended size of .378.
That explains why .375s never shaved a very good ring in my 2nd Gen '51 Navies and had a tendency to back out.
Sorry,
I should have reread. The "traditional" load is 60 grs. of BP under a 140 gr. round ball. Load is 50 grs. BP under the 220 gr. conical bullet.
Pps. 80-81 of Bates/Cumpston's book, "Percussion Pistols and Revolvers", co-authored by Mike Cumpston who frequents these Forums.
For those of you who think these things are on the brink, as to metallurgy, near a 150 years ago, in the South, copied brass framed pistols were proofed by filling to the muzzle with powder and fired. Many of them passed. Cylinders were loaded full, a 2 pound weight placed over the cylinder mouths, and all six touched off. Enough of these passed to be placed in service.
These were made of what was called "twisted iron", which I have not read the explanation of. I am assuming wrought iron, but not sure. This is 15 or so years AFTER the Walker, so assume that metal was better than in 1847.
Assuming again, and I worked in a steel mill for my last 15 years before retirement, that our lowest grade steel today is better than the best grade, then, direct copy, would pass any proof that they used. (Imported OR domestic rebar material excluded. That IS crap!)
Mad,
That looks like an old '60 cylinder. What are the circumstances of the accident, or is it a file photo from some where? It looks like one from an original. Possibly a museum or collector's gallery or one that someone tried to shoot with modern day fake powder. You know. Subs.
Has anyone here ever burst a cylinder, on a BP pistol? I can show you pics, or point you to them, in Keith's books. HOT .45 LC and .44 Mags.
Lots of supersteel thousand buck modern rifles, too. Sakos and the like.
Cheers,
George
I should have reread. The "traditional" load is 60 grs. of BP under a 140 gr. round ball. Load is 50 grs. BP under the 220 gr. conical bullet.
Pps. 80-81 of Bates/Cumpston's book, "Percussion Pistols and Revolvers", co-authored by Mike Cumpston who frequents these Forums.
For those of you who think these things are on the brink, as to metallurgy, near a 150 years ago, in the South, copied brass framed pistols were proofed by filling to the muzzle with powder and fired. Many of them passed. Cylinders were loaded full, a 2 pound weight placed over the cylinder mouths, and all six touched off. Enough of these passed to be placed in service.
These were made of what was called "twisted iron", which I have not read the explanation of. I am assuming wrought iron, but not sure. This is 15 or so years AFTER the Walker, so assume that metal was better than in 1847.
Assuming again, and I worked in a steel mill for my last 15 years before retirement, that our lowest grade steel today is better than the best grade, then, direct copy, would pass any proof that they used. (Imported OR domestic rebar material excluded. That IS crap!)
Mad,
That looks like an old '60 cylinder. What are the circumstances of the accident, or is it a file photo from some where? It looks like one from an original. Possibly a museum or collector's gallery or one that someone tried to shoot with modern day fake powder. You know. Subs.
Has anyone here ever burst a cylinder, on a BP pistol? I can show you pics, or point you to them, in Keith's books. HOT .45 LC and .44 Mags.
Lots of supersteel thousand buck modern rifles, too. Sakos and the like.
Cheers,
George
My guess is smokeless powder was used in this cylinder.
Ruger says, or said that any load of sporting black powder that will fit in the cylinder is safe in the Old Army, that's about 37 grains if you shoot a round ball, around 30 grains with a conical.
Most of the paper punchers claim 20 grains+filler is the sweet load for maximum accuracy.
Sorry, again, to add this so soon.
This link: http://www.uberti.com/firearms/walker.php
look under the 3 pics and says "designed to hold 60 grs. BP, etc."
Then look at this one, to see how wimps cover their asses: http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=1022
"Recommened load is 25 grains of 3F black powder, .454 round ball, and a .44 caliber revolver wad."
I'm not sure you could seat a ball with 25 grs of powder in a Walker. Rammer has limited travel. Uncompressed charge with BP.
Cheers,
George
This link: http://www.uberti.com/firearms/walker.php
look under the 3 pics and says "designed to hold 60 grs. BP, etc."
Then look at this one, to see how wimps cover their asses: http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=1022
"Recommened load is 25 grains of 3F black powder, .454 round ball, and a .44 caliber revolver wad."
I'm not sure you could seat a ball with 25 grs of powder in a Walker. Rammer has limited travel. Uncompressed charge with BP.
Cheers,
George
madcratebuilder
New member
I got the story second hand. I was told it was a full load of triple 7.
I agree, it looks like an old cylinder to me. They had no business using a sub in it if that's the case.