ammunition and guns

I read an article once,,,

It said that +P+ was developed to market to LE agencies,,,
Who carried .357 Magnums, but for political purposes,,,
Didn't want the name Magnum associated with them.

That sounds crazy to me but in our lawyer influenced world,,,
It could be an accurate claim.

So many of the gun buyers today didn't grow up around guns and ammo like my generation did,,,
We hunted and shot for recreation and actually saw what different calibers could do,,,
So we have made our decisions based on experience rather than marketing.

Having seen the damage that a 158 grain SWCHP did to a large dog,,,
I have all the faith in the world in that as a self defense round.

I've also seen dogs shot with a 30-06 who ran like they were just scared.

To paraphrase someone I read somewhere:
Stopping power is the court jester,,,
Shot placement is king.

Some may laugh about the 9mm obviously its not my 1st choice but I would not feel under-gunned. As long as I could hit where I was aiming I would be fine.
Click to expand...

Shucks my friend,,,
If you can put it where you want,,,
A .22 LR pistol would be plenty enough gun.

Pick a gun and practice with it,,,
Give yourself the best chance to hit your target,,,
And don't agonize over whether you have the best gun & ammo.

Aarond
 
Its marketing and ignorance....

but its also a trend ....where some guys just believe whatever they hear ...and don't seem to be able to reason / think the issue thru.

There is an amazing amount of talk in gunshops ...where the person asking a question from a shop person or an experienced shooter / is more about convincing people to agree with them on a pre-determined answer / not to really obtain info ...so they can make an informed decision. Guys don't like to admit they may have made a mistake / got bad info ...

I talk to guys at the range all the time ...to be sociable / to ask what they're shooting / what are they working on ....ammo, reloading, etc ...and I'm curious what guys are doing / what I might be able to learn. But there is a lot of "tunnel vision" out there - in this hobby - for some reason ...and its not just newbies / some of us old guys are no better...
 
9mm in it's "standard" loads is nowhere near as effective as many of the premium "+p" loadings. If you feel that's not true that's your business but most people who have actually done even a little research have come to that conclusion.
Click to expand...

The LA County Sheriff's department used 147gr 9mm from Winchester for years. They may still as far as I know.

Those guys chose the standard pressure round after extensive research in the real world. I have read several OIS shooting reports from different departments. The truth is the effective difference between 9mm +p and standard pressure isn't that high. There really is only a miniscule difference between 9mm and .40S&W.

The guy that walks away is usually the one that is the best trained or most proficient with his weapon. The common trend I saw wasn't the bullet used. It was the amount of training the officer had. More training usually equals a trip home instead of to the hospital.

124gr+p, 147gr, or 180gr .40S&W the effect on the body is pretty much the same. The main difference comes in barrier penetration. 124gr (in either flavor) usually doesn't hold up as well as a heavier bullet. Other wise it is six of one or a half dozen of the other.

One OIS report involved a fight with a mentally disturbed individual. The guy was shot two times with 180gr .40S&W bullets. He had a collapsed lung and partially severed brachial tube. The other 180gr bullet was nestled in his intestines. He continued to fight untill he took a cop's gun. At that point a 124gr+P 9mm took him out. It hit the brain and ended the fight.

It wasn't the bullet that saved lives. It was an officer that was trained and remained calm. He took the necessary action and placement won the day.

Standard pressure bullets can and do kill. There are advantages to +P. Saying that the +P is necessary to overcome the failings of 9mm isn't accurate.

I've read a report where an officer issued 124gr Magtech hollow points stopped the threat with two shots. He hit the perp's stomach (the organ not the fleshy part below the ribs) and he hit the guy's spine. The bullet to the spine paralyzed the guy from about the navel down. The perp hit the ground, dropped his gun, and then he gave up.

Not only was he using standard pressure ammo, he was using a crappy round. I don't advocate carrying Magtech ammo. I do advocate shooting what is comfortable and what your gun can handle.

That said, I carry 158gr+P LSWC-HPs in my .38. Why? Because I know they get the job done.

I carry 147gr Winchester Ranger Bonded or Federal HST in my 9mm. Why? Because they can get the job done. Plus, the 147gr is better at staying on course, as well as operating correctly, after passing through a barrier. Add in the fact that it is easier to shoot and won't wear the gun as quickly. That makes me feel more than secure even if it is standard pressure.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top