Ammo pricing - supply & demand, or something else?

Re think re loading

Larryh . . .
You might give reloading a second look. If you keep it simple you don't need much more storage space than a drawer sized plastic tub and you don't have to have a permanent work space. All the pics the books and reloading sites make it seem that to reload you gotta have a lot. Well those pics are from guys who reload a lot of different rounds and have all the gear with all the bells and whistles. Nothing wrong with that. Love it in fact. But . . . you don't have to go that route to reload one or two different calibers for your own shooting.
Live well, be safe
Prof Young
 
I have seriously considered reloading. I have a friend who reloads and I've done it with him a few times for 30-30 ammo. I have no doubt that I will reload when I have enough spare time to do it but right now time is scarce. Sometimes it's hard to find time to go shooting let alone reload to make it happen. I also know your mind has to be on the task 100% because if it is not you can make a deadly mistake. Once my schedule clears I will find the time and mental energy but in the mean time I have to buy it retail and complain about the prices. Truthfully, .22LR ammo and 9mm ammo is reasonably priced. I happen to have a love affair with the 1911 and the .45ACP ammo gets expensive and I know reloading will scratch that itch.
 
It is interesting to read the back and forth on this topic. I've always loved target shooting and hunting but when I was much younger and first married, with everything that goes with it, I couldn't hardly afford to by ammo at retail prices. I solved the problem by buying a Lee hand press (which I still have but no longer use) and then buying the dies and components to reload. I would even collect discarded brass from those who didn't reload just so I didn't have to buy it. It was the cheapest way for me to keep doing what I liked to do and not give it up because of cost per round. To this day I still reload (although not as frugal as in the past) and the only factory ammo I buy is rimfire. To me reloading is more satisfying than buying factory. I know exactly what I have and if it doesn't shoot well I know who or what to blame. And besides that I still like not paying retail when I can load it myself for a lot less. :)
 
I hear you about scarce time . . .

Larryh:
I hear you about the scarce time. Been there, done that.
My family is "growed" and gone and I make my living in the academic world so I have good spells of "down" time.
If I had to choose between shooting and reloading . . . I'd shoot.
Live well, be safe
Prof Young
 
I cannot speak for anyone but myself, but I would bet that my experience is far from unique.

I have owned at least a dozen 9mm pistols so far (five or six HK P7s of various types, three S&W 469s, two EMPs and others of lesser note). I have put many thousands of rounds throught these 9mms over the years.

I have owned four .380s, two of which were POS KTs, and two LCPs, the second of which I bought while the first was away on recall. Despite a lot of effort and outlay (documented elsewhere) the KTs combined put far fewer than 500 rounds between them...probably more like 200 total, at up to three malfunction-free rounds at a time. :rolleyes:

The two LCPs combined have run 500 or so, without the drama, new mags, new springs, F&B, or multiple ammo types.

To do it all again, one LCP would suffice...and I don't carry it or shoot it regularly.

Almost everyone I know owns at least one 9mm, and very few own a .380.

I would further bet that 9mm ammo outsells .380 by 20-1, due to the number of 9mms owned and used regularly. That is supply and demand defined.
 
I would further bet that 9mm ammo outsells .380 by 20-1, due to the number of 9mms owned and used regularly. That is supply and demand defined.
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...but the question is, would the .380 get used a lot more if it was the same price as 9mm ammo? Even though the 9mm is the most popular round in the last few decades or so, the .380 round has been around and prevalent for many more decades. I say there are a lot of .380s out there not being shot due to ammo cost more than anything else. The .380 round is also experiencing a resurgence for CCW purposes.
 
9mm is the most popular handgun round. This high demand should make it extra expensive since everyone wants it, right? But competition has a say too. If Remington undercuts Winchester who is in turn undercut by Federal and then Remington prices the UMC line even lower and then Federal splits off Federal Premium and renames their low cost lines Federal Champion and undercuts the market yet again.......and so on you eventually wind up with the situation you have today. If you're not picky about brand you can find FMJ 115 9mm for $10/50rds in any store that sells a lot of ammo.

Any additional demand for .380 due to the explosion of LCP type pistols is recent enough that this hasn't had time to take place yet in that caliber. It could happen in the future certainly. Especially if the pocket pistol boom has legs.
 
Hhmmm....Sometimes I think it's the lack of competition. I keep hearing about the great prices for ammunition at Wal-Mart, but at our local super-center such low prices never happen. I surmised that the reason we don't have the wonderful prices there, like I read about online is because there's no one else that sells ammunition in our area. [But, this seems to be typical Wal-Mart strategy...dirt-cheap prices until the competitors go out of business, then the price is whatever the market will bear.]--Patrice
 
[But, this seems to be typical Wal-Mart strategy...dirt-cheap prices until the competitors go out of business, then the price is whatever the market will bear.]--Patrice
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It's the strategy of a lot of successful businesses. The price is ALWAYS approximately whatever the market will bear. If you make a sale, the market "bore" it. Whether it bears it in sufficient volume to keep your business rolling is where competition comes in.
 
[But, this seems to be typical Wal-Mart strategy...dirt-cheap prices until the competitors go out of business, then the price is whatever the market will bear.]--Patrice
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Yea, the old predatory pricing theory. Been discredited for years because you can't find any examples of it actually happening. You find companies lowering prices as part of getting more efficient and competitive, but you can't find a company selling at a loss to drive competition bankrupt then raising prices again because it is VERY expensive and as soon as you raise prices to recoup your losses new companies enter the field. It can also backfire horrifically, as was the case with the German chemical cartel in Europe who tried predatory pricing to drive Herbert Dow from the European market.

Thomas Woods goes over the problem with the theory of predatory pricing.

Thomas Woods - Predatory Pricing 7 minutes - YouTube
 
32ACP is a few bucks less per box than 45ACP, but I still shoot way more of the latter.

Costs (raw mats, shipping, labor costs) are going up faster than anyone will ever admit. They find all kinds of ways to monkey with the "basket of goods" used to calculate the CPI to make the inflation rate look far better than what your day-to-day anecdotal experience tells you. I don't have the link handy, but there was a study out last week showing that if you removed infrequent, big-ticket items (eg houses, cars and electronics), then the actual inflation rate is more like 8%.
 
As someone who works on a range....

I think you will see .380 come down a bit more in months to come. The popular LCP, Sig 250 and Smith Bodyguard .380 are getting purchased for CCW. Sadly the prohibitive cost of the ammo keeps people from practicing and keeps prices high. But the sheer numbers that are starting to be purchased by size conscious shooters mean that manufacturers will need to be producing more of the caliber which is enjoying a resurgence. It may not get down to 9mm levels but it should come down as the popularity increases.
 
but there was a study out last week showing that if you removed infrequent, big-ticket items (eg houses, cars and electronics), then the actual inflation rate is more like 8%.
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Yup, the government creates the inflation in the first place and is then expected to accurately report how much they purchasing power they have confiscated.:rolleyes:Talk about the fox guarding the henhouse.

Here is a link to the study you mention. Everyday Price Index (EPI) - 8% It is very well done and works to expose the funny math that the US government uses.
 
Are you guys saying that people are buying .380's and not shooting at all due to ammo prices? Or that they're practicing with their 9MM instead to save a few bucks per box?
 
Kinda like gas. Have you ever noticed (not so much lately*) but one station will be 8-10 cents less than the one across the street. Fools still pumping at the higher priced station?? Ammo buyers do the same thing.

WHY??

*not so much lately-all stations seem to have the same price lately--but no collusion.. In this little town we have three gas sellers. With rare exception all have the same price. Next town over (17 mi) there are also 3 stations. There there can be a penny difference in two of them.
 
Are you guys saying that people are buying .380's and not shooting at all due to ammo prices? Or that they're practicing with their 9MM instead to save a few bucks per box?
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Speaking for myself, I do not practice as much with my .380 as I wish to. I shoot enough to get familiar with it and not much more. I'll shoot 500 rounds of 9mm to 50 .380. It's all about the price.
 
but there was a study out last week showing that if you removed infrequent, big-ticket items (eg houses, cars and electronics), then the actual inflation rate is more like 8%.
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For the vast majority of people housing and car are most of their household budgets. So why would you exclude what people spend 60-70% of their money on??
 
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