Ammo Panic Buy...
- Thread starter Skans
- Start date
Be prepared for the worst, and the worst is that M855 ammo you just bought might become illegal to possess.
WE have a law that says ammo is illegal to possess, if it meets the definition of AP in Federal Law. M855 ammo does not meet that definition as rifle ammo. As handgun ammo, that is what is currently being argued.
If it does become declared AP handgun ammo, then you will not be allowed to buy, sell, manufacture or possess it.
So, that case of ammo you just got could be a stash against SHTF, or a speculation (sell when panic doubles what you paid?) OR it could become a federal crime, just sitting in your house.
And, its not a matter of stopping a law getting passed, its a matter of ATF interpretation of existing law and their regulations, which is a completely different matter.
WE have a law that says ammo is illegal to possess, if it meets the definition of AP in Federal Law. M855 ammo does not meet that definition as rifle ammo. As handgun ammo, that is what is currently being argued.
If it does become declared AP handgun ammo, then you will not be allowed to buy, sell, manufacture or possess it.
So, that case of ammo you just got could be a stash against SHTF, or a speculation (sell when panic doubles what you paid?) OR it could become a federal crime, just sitting in your house.
And, its not a matter of stopping a law getting passed, its a matter of ATF interpretation of existing law and their regulations, which is a completely different matter.
You could say that about every single gun, magazine, electronic laser sight, and box of ammo I own. In fact, in the 1990's Clinton's ATF forced the registration of USAS-12's and other semi-auto shotguns. We are all sitting on tools and accessories that could be deemed contraband tomorrow. If that concerns anyone, then perhaps collecting pocket watches is a safer hobby. (BTW, I like pocket watches
)IF you look at it broadly enough, there are no safe hobbies (and darn little else) when a govt gets rampant "ban-itis." Sometimes, some things get "grandfathered, sometimes they don't.
Gun bans, usually contain some kind of "grandfather" provision. Ammo bans? It depends. Right now, AP HANDGUN ammo possession is prohibited. There's no wiggle room in that law.
AP Rifle ammo law is looser. You can't buy it, or sell it, or give it away (other than to a licensed dealer) but if you have it, you can keep it, and shoot it (under existing laws -no hunting, etc.).
The m855 issue is not yet resolved. Any outcome is still possible.
And pocket watches are cool. I use one in preference to a wrist watch. But they aren't 100% safe. Nothing is, depending on what the Govt. does. The FDR administrations banned private possession of gold, other than jewelry and licensed coin collectors. I believe pocket watches were considered jewelry, but if they hadn't been, when good ol' Uncle Sam found out about that gold watch, it and you might go bye bye....
Gun bans, usually contain some kind of "grandfather" provision. Ammo bans? It depends. Right now, AP HANDGUN ammo possession is prohibited. There's no wiggle room in that law.
AP Rifle ammo law is looser. You can't buy it, or sell it, or give it away (other than to a licensed dealer) but if you have it, you can keep it, and shoot it (under existing laws -no hunting, etc.).
The m855 issue is not yet resolved. Any outcome is still possible.
And pocket watches are cool. I use one in preference to a wrist watch. But they aren't 100% safe. Nothing is, depending on what the Govt. does. The FDR administrations banned private possession of gold, other than jewelry and licensed coin collectors. I believe pocket watches were considered jewelry, but if they hadn't been, when good ol' Uncle Sam found out about that gold watch, it and you might go bye bye....
Anytime a mob wants something you have and they have the force of the military behind their wanting, they will get it. If Hitler could do it...... (not completed because we all know what goes here, don't we).
Well, I'll probably get my expensive ammo. I may shoot some, since I needed some 5.56 anyway. It would be fun to see what the capability of this ammo is out from an armor piercing perspective anyway.
Well, I'll probably get my expensive ammo. I may shoot some, since I needed some 5.56 anyway. It would be fun to see what the capability of this ammo is out from an armor piercing perspective anyway.
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There are, essentially two main tactics used for selling gun (and ammo) control laws.
One is, they invent a problem (like AP handgun ammo), ban it, and claim victory.
The other is they misidentify the causes of a real problem, restrict/ban guns, ammo, magazines, etc. and when this fails to cure the problem, claim more of the same laws are needed.
M855 Ammo is of no practical benefit to the civilian shooter, as ammo alone. It has a benefit when it is cheap(er) surplus ammo, but none other I can see. If you have a rifle with a twist for that bullet, there are other bullets (without the steel penetrator insert) that will shoot as well.
If you think in rifle terms, its not AP (Armor Piercing) ammo. It is EP (enhanced penetrating) over standard 55gr ball, but that's ALL it is.
One is, they invent a problem (like AP handgun ammo), ban it, and claim victory.
The other is they misidentify the causes of a real problem, restrict/ban guns, ammo, magazines, etc. and when this fails to cure the problem, claim more of the same laws are needed.
M855 Ammo is of no practical benefit to the civilian shooter, as ammo alone. It has a benefit when it is cheap(er) surplus ammo, but none other I can see. If you have a rifle with a twist for that bullet, there are other bullets (without the steel penetrator insert) that will shoot as well.
If you think in rifle terms, its not AP (Armor Piercing) ammo. It is EP (enhanced penetrating) over standard 55gr ball, but that's ALL it is.
What this means is the M855 penetrates better then the M193 (55gr ball) but does NOT penetrate enough to meet the military standards for armor piercing ammunition.
FORGET ABOUT VESTS!!!! Vests (what will and won't get through "standard" vests) are a smokescreen. It has NOTHING to do with AP ammo, or the current issue over re-classifying the M855 round.
EVERY common rifle round will punch through the "standard" soft vests without even noticing they are there. ALL the regular sporting soft points intended for big game will do it easily. Some of the smallest rounds loaded with varmint bullets might not, but loaded with solids, will do the same thing.
Going by the laws involved, what will go though what vest isn't even germane to the subject. it's a political smoke screen, the reason claimed by the gun banners for WHY they need to ban AP ammo. BUT, its NOT in any of the laws about AP ammo, anywhere.
In many ways, it is the same tactic used during the "assault weapon" debate. It has nothing to do with what the gun (or ammo) actually does, its all about what it looks like it does, or what they can convince people it does.
The military definition of AP ammo is based on what it will penetrate. The definition in Fed law of what is AP ammo is not. It defines AP based on what the bullet is made of, NOT what it does.
A bullet meeting their definition of AP (based on its construction) could be fired at a whole 25fps (twenty five feet per second -to be clear) and it would still be AP under the law. The fact that it won't penetrate a pop can at 30 feet doesn't matter at all.
Likewise, if you could fire a solid lead slug at 4000fps, and penetrate 16 vests stacked in a row, it would NOT be AP under the law. (and you can drive lead slugs to 2200fps which will swiss cheese any regular vest. A .30-30 can do this.)
Essentially, the Feds created an arbitrary standard, having nothing to do with the actual performance of ammo, to define AP. For over 30 years, they said the M855 ammo was not AP.
Now, with NO CHANGE to the LAW, and NO CHANGE to the AMMO, the Fed is trying to say M855 is AP.
Some of us just don't think that's right.
Seems to me that panic buying is directly related to "the butterfly effect."
Some vague rumor spreads across the internet, and the next thing you know, the shelves are empty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect
Some vague rumor spreads across the internet, and the next thing you know, the shelves are empty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect
weedsnager
Moderator
The last few days when I've been in cabelas, people have been buying 223 like the world is coming to an end. They've also put the 5 box limit back in effect