Firepower!
New member
What is considered most damaging round in terms of JHP, FMJ or Hydrashock? Particularly against well trained BG, possibly prepared, and determined to kill you. I am mostly concerned with 9, 45, 357 and 44. Thanks.
Ammo for maximum damage?
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Ruthless4christ
New member
hmmmmmmmm.... Seems if heard this subject touched upon before.,..coil be my mistake
Way too much silliness about "designer" ammo nowadays.
The one and only choice to make is JHP over FMJ. That's it.
All the gelatin tests and crap are just ways of saying that a bullet either expands or doesn't, and an expanded bullet (JHP) creates more sudden shock effect than does a bullet that doesn't expand (FMJ). Again, that's it.
So use a hollow point for best shock effect (stopping "power"), and choose one that reliably cycles in your pistol. And that "reliable cycle" part is way more important than the "JHP" thing if push comes to shove.
With all that said, I like both the Winchester White Box JHP's and the Federal HST's.
Both are good self defense rounds and neither will break the bank since you want to shoot the same rounds at the range that you intend to carry in order to insure the "reliable cycle" part.
As a side note, I claim no background nor experience about the following comment, but my gut feeling is that if I ever have to be defended against a (justifiable) shooting charge, I'd rather NOT give the opposing attorney any "ammo" (pun intended) by letting him claim that my intent was to kill the other guy rather than to "just" defend myself.
If my pistol had been loaded with one of the "cop killer" rounds (a term the opposing attorney would surely use), or a "dum dum" or other such nonsense that could be applied to one of the designer rounds, then he might be able to make the jury think that I was a crazed killer just looking for an excuse to waste somebody.
Like I said, I have no background nor experience on which to hang the last couple of paragraphs, but when I see the kind of nonsense that passes for "law" these days, I want to be on the safe side if I ever have to defend myself.
The one and only choice to make is JHP over FMJ. That's it.
All the gelatin tests and crap are just ways of saying that a bullet either expands or doesn't, and an expanded bullet (JHP) creates more sudden shock effect than does a bullet that doesn't expand (FMJ). Again, that's it.
So use a hollow point for best shock effect (stopping "power"), and choose one that reliably cycles in your pistol. And that "reliable cycle" part is way more important than the "JHP" thing if push comes to shove.
With all that said, I like both the Winchester White Box JHP's and the Federal HST's.
Both are good self defense rounds and neither will break the bank since you want to shoot the same rounds at the range that you intend to carry in order to insure the "reliable cycle" part.
As a side note, I claim no background nor experience about the following comment, but my gut feeling is that if I ever have to be defended against a (justifiable) shooting charge, I'd rather NOT give the opposing attorney any "ammo" (pun intended) by letting him claim that my intent was to kill the other guy rather than to "just" defend myself.
If my pistol had been loaded with one of the "cop killer" rounds (a term the opposing attorney would surely use), or a "dum dum" or other such nonsense that could be applied to one of the designer rounds, then he might be able to make the jury think that I was a crazed killer just looking for an excuse to waste somebody.
Like I said, I have no background nor experience on which to hang the last couple of paragraphs, but when I see the kind of nonsense that passes for "law" these days, I want to be on the safe side if I ever have to defend myself.
Gelatin test are very informative as to testing specific performance parameters that should be taken into consideration when designing ammunition. Certain JHP 'designs' are far less likely to fragment or lose any mass as it mushrooms..which arguably has a lot to do with a bullet's penetration ability.
Certainly gelatin tests have a place in bullet design and ammunition selection.
As for the OP, get whatever JHP ammunition you find and choose what is most accurate and reliable from your particular guns.
DWARREN123
New member
I would think it has to do with caliber and weather. With the 380 ACP it is suggested to use FMJ and doing cold weather when lots of clothing layers are used FMJ/TC may penetrate better.
When it comes down to it shot placement will decide.
When it comes down to it shot placement will decide.
You need to change your criteria from damage to stopping power, I think. There are cases where eventual fatality does not equal immediate stopping power and even vice versa, perhaps. For the guy fearful about legal problems with ammo, well just find out what the police use around there and maybe use the same ammo. That will pretty effectively remove that from being seriously considered assuming that the rest of the case is on your side.
You have to be able to hit what you aim at and where you aimed at. If you cannot do this that bazooka belly bustin super duper hollow point wad cutter expodin magic bullet anit gonna mean squat
PERIOD!!!!!LanceOregon
Moderator
.45 Rounds tend to do a lot of hurt. Especially ones like these two from CorBon and Hornady:
.40 caliber rounds do major damage too, like this Federal HST ( left ) and Winchester Ranger T ( right ):
Even 9mm ammo is dangerous, such as this CorBon load:
Or these two Winchester Ranger T 9mm loads:
.40 caliber rounds do major damage too, like this Federal HST ( left ) and Winchester Ranger T ( right ):
Even 9mm ammo is dangerous, such as this CorBon load:
Or these two Winchester Ranger T 9mm loads:
Extreme Shock
EXTREME SHOCK AMMO is the BEST ammo EVER!!!!! One round will most likely cause you target to explode into red mist! who needs shot placement with that kinda power!?
Just Kidding... seriously I would go with Placement and what your gun likes... who cares if you have the coolest 9mm bullets in the world if they won't get up the feed ramp of you gun?
EXTREME SHOCK AMMO is the BEST ammo EVER!!!!! One round will most likely cause you target to explode into red mist! who needs shot placement with that kinda power!?
Just Kidding... seriously I would go with Placement and what your gun likes... who cares if you have the coolest 9mm bullets in the world if they won't get up the feed ramp of you gun?
ElectricHellfire
New member
What? No exploding bullets? 
I like Hydrashocks and Golden Sabers.
I like Hydrashocks and Golden Sabers.
Firepower!
New member
thanks
thank you everyone. I appreciate the invaluable information. Thanks to CHD for noting the legal aspects.
And as rogertc just wasted my time, hence going on ignore list as of now.
thank you everyone. I appreciate the invaluable information. Thanks to CHD for noting the legal aspects.
And as rogertc just wasted my time, hence going on ignore list as of now.
You can use any bullet you want but if you cannot hit the bulls-eye every time under pressure at 25 yards they will not do you much good.
I prefer the 357 Sierra 125 grain power jackets myself but the 140 grain Sierra power jackets are nice also and I have learned to hit the bulls-eye at 50 yards while someone is screaming at me so that's a whole nother story.
A 22 rimfire is a lot easier to shoot and from what I heard from an old war verteran they will knock you down screaming which is what happen to him at Iwo Jima when he was shot in the shoulder so it probably does not matter what bullet you use and only what you hit in every case.
I prefer the 357 Sierra 125 grain power jackets myself but the 140 grain Sierra power jackets are nice also and I have learned to hit the bulls-eye at 50 yards while someone is screaming at me so that's a whole nother story.
A 22 rimfire is a lot easier to shoot and from what I heard from an old war verteran they will knock you down screaming which is what happen to him at Iwo Jima when he was shot in the shoulder so it probably does not matter what bullet you use and only what you hit in every case.
Regular Joe
New member
Among the JHP's, there are 2 approaches that I think are viable for 9mm. Against minimal clothing, the Nosler 115 gr. JHP can be very nasty. Within about 3 or 4" of penetration, the bullet breaks up into several small pieces. Normally, I find that one piece and the jacket are left in the first 1 gal. water jug, and 4 or 5 pieces penetrate into the 2nd. I shot a jackrabbit one night that was standing at the front of my car with that bullet. As I got out to see the damage, I found one little side of ribs on the car roof. That was loaded with 6.5 gr. of Unique and a Rem. small rifle bench rest primer.
The other design I like is either the standard Rem. 124 gr. HP or their 124 gr. Golden Saber. Check the gel test results:
http://www.brassfetcher.com/124%20grain%20+P%20Remington%20Golden%20Saber.html
In water, I find that the standard Rem. 124 gr. HP actually retains the jacket better, and expands about the same, fully traversing 3 separate gallon jugs.
With the Nosler bullet, there is a lot of internal cutting and no exit. With the Rem. bullets, I would expect a nasty exit wound, with heavy bleeding. The Rem. bullets would be the better choice for penetration of any clothing or gear. That's as destructive as the 9mm can be.
*Note that I don't discredit the Nosler bullet for fragmenting. What this does, in the real world, is create a larger wound, because the fragments don't just sit there! How deep into the body are the vitals on a man? If you have 5 separate fragments, each traveling 4 to 6 inches after penetration and in different paths, your boy is going down!
The other design I like is either the standard Rem. 124 gr. HP or their 124 gr. Golden Saber. Check the gel test results:
http://www.brassfetcher.com/124%20grain%20+P%20Remington%20Golden%20Saber.html
In water, I find that the standard Rem. 124 gr. HP actually retains the jacket better, and expands about the same, fully traversing 3 separate gallon jugs.
With the Nosler bullet, there is a lot of internal cutting and no exit. With the Rem. bullets, I would expect a nasty exit wound, with heavy bleeding. The Rem. bullets would be the better choice for penetration of any clothing or gear. That's as destructive as the 9mm can be.
*Note that I don't discredit the Nosler bullet for fragmenting. What this does, in the real world, is create a larger wound, because the fragments don't just sit there! How deep into the body are the vitals on a man? If you have 5 separate fragments, each traveling 4 to 6 inches after penetration and in different paths, your boy is going down!
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Your criteria for selecting ammo should be as follows;
Pre-fragmented ammo, Glasers, MagSafe and similar ammo usually fails to penetrate deep enough to shut down an attacker. They create horrific looking shallow wounds though and these can be very painful to those not on drugs or adrenaline.
For your calibers, my selection of ammo would include:
9mm : Speer 124g Gold Dot or 124g Hydrashok
.357 : Speer 135g Gold Dot, Winchester 145g Silvertip or any 158g LSWC-HP
.45ACP: Federal 230g Hydrashok, Winchester 230g SXT
.44Mag: Speer 200g Gold Dot .44 Special, Federal 240g Hydrashok
- Reliability. It must go bang every time. The ammo itself must be reliable. It must also reliably work in your gun. It must feed 100% in autos and not have bullets that "walk out" of their cases in _your_ wheelgun.
- Accuracy. We know it'll go bang, now it must go where we point it with as much accuracy as we can use. It doesn't do you any good if you can't place it within an inch of aim on target.
- Penetration. When it fires and we accurately put it on target, if the bullet won't penetrate deeply, it won't be an effective stopper. One has to worry about heavy clothing, extra fat tissue and getting through bone. The bullet has to have enough mass (weight) to penetrate 10-12" after going through clothing and bone.
- Bullet Design: Usually JHP's are better than FMJ or RNL. Unreliable JHP designs are no better than FMJ. Many people rely on the .38/.357 158g LSWC-HP which has a decent record. Select the best you can afford that balances expansion with penetration.
Pre-fragmented ammo, Glasers, MagSafe and similar ammo usually fails to penetrate deep enough to shut down an attacker. They create horrific looking shallow wounds though and these can be very painful to those not on drugs or adrenaline.
For your calibers, my selection of ammo would include:
9mm : Speer 124g Gold Dot or 124g Hydrashok
.357 : Speer 135g Gold Dot, Winchester 145g Silvertip or any 158g LSWC-HP
.45ACP: Federal 230g Hydrashok, Winchester 230g SXT
.44Mag: Speer 200g Gold Dot .44 Special, Federal 240g Hydrashok
