Ammo capacity in CCW firearms: Getting a little carried away?

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American Eagle

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After years of reading this forum, it is hard not to notice the trend towards higher capacity CCW firearms. But is a 17+1 9MM pistol really much better than an 8+1 .380 ACP or sub-compact 9MM pistol, or even a 6 shot revolver?

I've always felt perfectly safe with a 6 shot revolver, or with an 8+1 pistol. But then again, I've never subscribed to the spray and pray school of shooting that many people here do. I know Hollywood makes us think that a self-defense encounter will require a 20 minute firefight in which you will spend 7 magazines full of ammo, culminating in hand to hand fighting....but the reality is that bad guys don't like to meet resistance, and the mere sight of a gun will terminate most encounters. And if you can't hit the bad guy on the first shot or two, ammo capacity will be the least of your worries. Unless you are a law enforcement officer, gangster, or soldier, who might encounter 5-6 people determined to die trying to kill you....do you really need that much ammo?

How do you feel about this? Do you carry a single stack pistol or a revolver with 1 cylinder full, or are you the type that carries a 16 or 17 shot pistol. Or perhaps you are the type of person who carries a 17+1 pistol with 4 spare magazines in your pockets? :eek:
 
PS: I know a guy who carries an FN Five-Seven loaded with a 20 round magazine, and 4 spare magazines in his pockets. That's 100 shots :eek::eek:

And no, he is not a gangster, just overly paranoid after watching too many Hollywood movies.
 
All else held equal, the higher the capacity of your handgun the better. Unfortunately, all else is rarely, if ever, equal and a high capacity handgun almost always forces you to sacrifice other benefits like size, gun type, or weight. Every handgun available has distinctive sets of advantages and disadvantages as compared to others, so it's impossible to proclaim one particular model as the best available. The best you can do is to decide based on your own unique situation and circumstances what factors are most important to you and choose the handgun that fits those factors best. For myself and my own situation, I feel adequately armed with a five or six-shot revolver and one or two speed loaders/strips or a single-stack semi-auto with a spare magazine or two. Your situation, however, may or may not be different than mine and the best gun for me may or may not be the best one for you.
 
Unless you are a law enforcement officer, gangster, or soldier, who might encounter 5-6 people determined to die trying to kill you....do you really need that much ammo?
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I agree with you entirely, I see no need to carry more than 6 rounds. Occasionally I will carry an extra speed loader if I have a revolver and coat but I never carry an extra mag when I have my Kahr P380 on me.

But despite that fact that most of us will never need to use our CCW and even if we do, the likelihood of it being against more than 1-2 individuals is remote, there are people out there that argue that statistical likelihood is not the same thing as being prepared. Could I be assailed by 5 heavily armed muggers? I guess so but I doubt it. And if I can't stop an attack with 6 bullets, I'm probably not going to be able to stop it with 10 or reload.

That's my philosophy and others will disagree. But I personally have no use for a gun so full of bullets its uncomfortable to carry and I leave it home. I also don't agree that I should dress for my weapon. If I can't conceal my weapon with what I am dressed in, it's the wrong weapon for me.
 
I have lots of reasons for why I have gradually moved from a 6+1 capacity 1911 to higher capacity pistols and at least one reload:
1. Better to have the extra rounds and not need them, then to need and not have them.
2. Generally speaking, a higher capacity model of a pistol is larger and easier to shoot/operate than a sub-compact lower capacity version with cut down grip and/or frame.
3.Malfunction clearance with a semi-auto can be simplified by carrying an extra mag. Double feed malfunction is easier, because you don't have to retain a mag you just ripped out of the gun in a hurry.
4. I find it pretty easy to conceal a large and/or higher capacity pistol, so why not reap the benefits?
5. I carry a gun to protect myself and my family. The odds of me needing a gun are very small, but if I'm bothering to be prepared for a rare scenario, why not go the extra mile and prepare for the worst of the worst case scenarios?
6. Higher capacity is better than lower capacity. If I can and will carry a higher capacity pistol, then it's just another advantage for me.

My typical carry set up is a 4" XD in 357SIG with 2 spare mags in a double mag pouch, or a CZ SP-01 with 1-2sparemags. I carry the pistol on my strong side hip with reloads on my weak side hip, I train from this general set up and it's comfortable for me. I find it easy to carry at least one spare mag, it's much easier than concealing a pistol and the little bit of extra weight doesn't bother me.
 
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I disagree with your premise.

If anything there has been a trend toward smaller low-capacity CCWs

Kahr PM9/CM9
Rohrbaugh R9
Diamonback DB9
Ruger LC9
Kimber Solo

The Boberg is on it's way to the market now...

Most of these pistols only hold 6 or 7 rounds and they seem to represent a trend toward smalller sized, lower capacity concealable firearms in a major caliber.
 
I won't second guess anyone's decision to carry a certain number of rounds but as I get older, I seem to be drawn towards comfort rather than capacity. I usually carry a G26 with 10rnds in a Safariland paddle holster with no spare magazine but a small revolver in a pocket holster is having more appeal as time goes by.
 
In certain areas. I feel comfortable conceal carry with either my Bersa or Beretta .380 calibers with 7+1 capacity mag.
If I plan on being in, or going through 'Bad Land - Undesireable Terretory'. I will carry a Beretta 9mm with 15+1 round mag.
 
Hey, carry what you want, youre the one that has to live with the choice.

If you believe in the rule of threes, and think you can solve anything that occurs with the 5 or 6 shots you got along, great. If you cant, it wont matter.

Personally, Id prefer to have 16 rounds left in the gun, than to need number 6 or 7, and not have it.

Just curious, but those who only carry back up guns as a primary, how do you "really" practice? Assuming you get good "hits" with every shot, what makes you so sure, that youll get one shot stops with each and every shot?

When you step away from the "target" range, where your target is stationary, and youre stationary, and youre shooting under stress, how well do you do? Have you even tried to practice this way?

If you practice a little more realistically, you realize that a 5 shot handgun, is already basically empty after the first burst into the first target (who only shoots one shot at a target?). If they are still up after that initial burst, you have to keep shooting until they are not. Thats just "one" opponent, and it only gets worse as the number of opponents go up. At best, you might have two chances to solve the problem before you have to reload.

I also don't agree that I should dress for my weapon. If I can't conceal my weapon with what I am dressed in, it's the wrong weapon for me.
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This.....

is the reason for this....

Most of these pistols only hold 6 or 7 rounds and they seem to represent a trend toward smalller sized, lower capacity concealable firearms in a major caliber.
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It seems these days to many people, carrying a gun is "cool", and more of a fashion accessory than something they really think they are going to need.

The difference between carrying a full size gun and a back up gun are really minimal. Some of us carry both, while others cry the smaller gun is chore. How can things be so different?

Personally, I think the difference is the difference between these two words. Want and Cant.


No spare mag yet
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The weakest link in the autos is the mag. How can you not carry a spare? Regardless of capacity, as its not a capacity issue, you should have a spare mag along.
 
I practice firing two shots with no intervening thinking or decision making -IMO if I have to deploy a firearm - it's a life or death situation and it's two shots BLAM BLAM, before I re-evaluate the situation and decide to repeat, move, flee etc...

My thinking is, "If I have to pull the trigger - I should deliver a double tap to the target."

That's just my thinking.
 
I think one reason for the difference in carry difficulty people encounter is the difference in dress style and the difference in body build.

Dress style is obvious - if one person dresses in contemporary male urban style with baggy clothes and the other dresses in dress-casual office attire, and still yet another dresses in contemporary female style (no real functional pockets, very tight), you can easily see how the difference between a pocket pistol and a compact pistol would matter a lot.

Body build is less obvious unless you start paying attention. I'm 6' tall and skinny as a rail, have been my whole life. I dress in jeans/khakis and polos or button-down shirts. It is darn hard for me to conceal anything beyond a pocket-pistol. IWB is a no-go with almost any gun, the grips stick out when I move. I can carry a shoulder rig, but I have to pick the right shirt - on the rare occasions when I carry my P2000 in its rig, I have to be careful when dressing. My P238 drops into any set of pants I owns and disappears. A person 20-30lbs. heavier than me could conceal many different weapons without issue.

I'll be the first to admit that concealment restricts the weapon I carry. If I didn't have to conceal, I'd just carry a full-sized pistol and be done with it. But, unless something drastic changes, that's never going to happen. So... pocket pistol it is for me!

As far as ammo capacity goes, it's important to me, but size is more important. My Sig P238 is 6+1, and I carry a spare mag. I feel comfortable with that, despite the fact that if I get accosted by a group of 8 coked-up ruffians I'll have a tough time of it. However, if I ever go to places where the likelihood of more unfavorable scenarios is higher than here in the country, I take the P2000, which is 13+1 and I carry two spare mags. If I can't handle something with 40 rounds, even if I have the time to shoot that many, I'm screwed anyway.

It's a probability game, and I'm betting that day-to-day, I won't run into a big group of aggressors, especially if I practice situational awareness.
 
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I've never subscribed to the spray and pray school of shooting that many people here do.
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I never got that impression. In fact, from everything I have read here on TFL, I got quite the opposite.
 
I do like the higher cap mags but since I like a 45acp for carry, that's pretty much a crapshoot for high cap mags for my 4506.

I believe that the more mags you have the better you are. But if you can't shoot worth a damn then why bother.
 
I have three different CCW options:

  • M&P 9c (13 round capacity)
  • Kahr CW9 (7 round capacity)
  • S&W J-frame (5 round capacity)
I always carry one reload so it really depends on where I'm going, what my activity is, what season it is, what location of town I'm heading, etc... I don't feel the need to carry my M&P 9 with an 18 round capacity; one reload would give me 35 rounds capacity ... that's war zone capacity and I probably shouldn't be in the part of town anyway. :rolleyes:
 
I've carried everything from my 5-shot S&W Mod.37 to my 17-shot CZ-75. My daily carry is a Kel-Tec P3AT .380. If I go to Philthadelphia and it's 'flash mobs' , I'll take the CZ.
 
Sometimes I carry a spare mag, most times I do not; and none of my hand-guns have a capacity of over 7 rounds. But it's a personal choice, and one made by me based on assessment of risk for a particular situation.

I do know some folks who CC more artillery and rounds than a cop, and it's way over done....but, its their life, not mine.

I don't want to be the one in court after a shooting with the opposing attorney parading for the jury my 3 guns, 8 mags, knife, flashlight, and pepper-spray.
But, along those lines, you also have to plan, train and carry to survive the deadly encounter, which means a gun and ammo.
 
This is my logic with carrying a 15 shot 9mm: I often don't carry any extra mag or ammo on my person(just in the vehicle). If I do happen to carry the SP101, I carry 2 speedloaders to get the same number of rounds which is not as handy. In high stress confrontations the ammo spent can get away from a shooter and you can run dry with 5,6,or 7 rounds before you realize what you've done. The "flash mob" thing is another excellent reason to have a lot of ammo IN THE GUN. Regardless of how quick you can reload, not having to reload is quicker. If I have an armed threat in front of me, I have every intention of hammering bullets at it until it goes away whether that's 1,2, or 12.
 
I don't normally carry a "high capacity" pistol.

My Glock 27/33 holds 9+1 sometimes I carry a spare magazine, not that I think I'll need it.

I use standard 7 round magazines in my 1911 and always carry a spare magazine, not that I think I'll need it.

I also wear a seatbelt and have a fire extinguisher, not that I think I'll need them, but just to be prepared in case of emergency. ;)
 
Ask yourself these questions: (1) how many hits do you think you might need to effectively stop a determine violent criminal actor who is trying to kill you, if his rapid movement prevents you from ensuring well-placed hits; (2) how many shots will it take you to make those hits, assuming that (a) you are highly stressed, (b) things are happening with lightning speed, and (c) your target is moving very fast; (3) since more and more attacks involve more than one person, do you want to be prepared for that, and (4) what kind of reserve do you want?

If the answer to (1) is two or three, the answer to (2) is three to six (that assumes that you practice), and the answer to (3) leads you to prepare for two attackers. That takes you to six to twelve rounds plus your desired reserve.

For more food for thought, order Lessons from the Street from Rangemaster, listen to the accounts of ten actual civilian self defense shootings, and decide for yourself.
 
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