44 AMP has hit the nail on the head. There are not as many opportunities and fewer places for youngsters to hunt and plick with guns. For example, in the county in which I live, it is almost impossible to find a place to hunt. Most of the land that could be hunted is privately owned and there is no access to those who are not friends with the owners. There is only one public hunting area within 65 miles of my town, and the last time I went to hunt it there were probably 50 people trying to hunt less than 100 acres. Scary!
America's gun culture - fading slowly?
- Thread starter Derius_T
- Start date
sw_florida
Moderator
A bit unclear there; who is the hunted?
I do believe however, that a big problem is that more and more younger, uneducated people (as far as guns go) actually believe the stuff these people say.
What happens to impressionable young people when their only ideas and beliefs about guns come from anti-gun sources and hollyweird? I think with the way people are being encouraged to hate guns, that if it isn't already moving us towards england, it surely will soon if people don't take a stand.
What happens to impressionable young people when their only ideas and beliefs about guns come from anti-gun sources and hollyweird? I think with the way people are being encouraged to hate guns, that if it isn't already moving us towards england, it surely will soon if people don't take a stand.
Isn't this the truth. I have a friend from the local gun club whose teenage daughters are as anti as humanely possible. His entire family including his brother's children are as pro gun as possible. His daughters where brought up around guns, and learned to hunt at an early age. Now they are radical leftist. They don't eat meat, hate guns, hate traditional values and now preach about world peace and all that nonsense. Unfortunately the public schools system they went through is know for its radical teachers who mold young minds to conform to their ideaology. When I was their age I had a few radical teachers, but they where pretty balanced in teaching their courses. They wanted people to think for themselves instead of conforming to an ideology. Now teachers are there to instill liberal doctrine. It has now gotten out of hand. A large % of the students that leave the city school system are radical. Many of the teacher hold protests as part of a school assignment. Plenty of people have taken there kids out of the school system to send them to local catholic schools.
jkkimberfan
New member
pure BS
I live in a very urban part of NJ and each time I go to the local gun store, it is packed and they are selling guns briskly. Soon after 9/11, I was in this store and asked to see a type of rifle, there was a line to even look at them and the clerk said they couldn't keep this type in stock, they were selling "like hotcakes". Six years later, I was back in this same store looking at the same type of rifle and the clerk remarked that they only had one in stock and they couldn't keep them in stock for more than one day. After every major disaster or event, such as the LA Riots, 9/11, Hurricane Katrina, etc.., many Americans went out and bought a gun or two, "just in case". I agree hunting is fading as hunting lands disappear, and the hunting culture is fading among younger kids in favor of other past times (computers, video games, ipods, etc.). But I believe most people still believe they should be able to own a gun and do in fact own a gun. They just are not reporting them as before, since the liberal types have run amok and it is not PC to be a gun owner in many places. I would not report my gun in a poll nor talk about them openly in public. And I assure you, I vote against any politician who votes to infringe on my 2nd Amendment rights, as do many in NJ and this number is growing. In fact, several pro gun types recently won election in my local town and in all of the surrounding local towns, which had been governed by liberal anti gun types. Liberalism has peeked and is losing ground, people are finally getting fed up with this BS PC garbage.
I live in a very urban part of NJ and each time I go to the local gun store, it is packed and they are selling guns briskly. Soon after 9/11, I was in this store and asked to see a type of rifle, there was a line to even look at them and the clerk said they couldn't keep this type in stock, they were selling "like hotcakes". Six years later, I was back in this same store looking at the same type of rifle and the clerk remarked that they only had one in stock and they couldn't keep them in stock for more than one day. After every major disaster or event, such as the LA Riots, 9/11, Hurricane Katrina, etc.., many Americans went out and bought a gun or two, "just in case". I agree hunting is fading as hunting lands disappear, and the hunting culture is fading among younger kids in favor of other past times (computers, video games, ipods, etc.). But I believe most people still believe they should be able to own a gun and do in fact own a gun. They just are not reporting them as before, since the liberal types have run amok and it is not PC to be a gun owner in many places. I would not report my gun in a poll nor talk about them openly in public. And I assure you, I vote against any politician who votes to infringe on my 2nd Amendment rights, as do many in NJ and this number is growing. In fact, several pro gun types recently won election in my local town and in all of the surrounding local towns, which had been governed by liberal anti gun types. Liberalism has peeked and is losing ground, people are finally getting fed up with this BS PC garbage.
jakeswensonmt
New member
off topic terminology tirade
I agree with your assessment of the "BS PC garbage" but feel the need to address the word "liberalism."
[RANT]
The words "conservative" and "liberal" have been over/misused to the point where they have become doublespeak.
"Conservative" Republicans politicians who are in no way conservative call their detractors "liberals" as a term of derision, even though most of the Democrat "liberals" are really totalitarianists, as often are their Republican accusors. The Democrats tend to be totalitarian with strong socialist tendencies, the Republicans tend to be totalitarian with strong fascist tendencies. Both employ "PC BS," and love big government and the intrusive nannystate.
The word "liberal" used to mean "permissive" or "generous", the word "conservative" used to mean "cautious" and "prudent." There's nothing liberal or conservative about attacking the 2nd amendment, but that doesn't stop both political parties from doing it.
[/RANT]
Fixed it for you.
I agree with your assessment of the "BS PC garbage" but feel the need to address the word "liberalism."
[RANT]
The words "conservative" and "liberal" have been over/misused to the point where they have become doublespeak.
"Conservative" Republicans politicians who are in no way conservative call their detractors "liberals" as a term of derision, even though most of the Democrat "liberals" are really totalitarianists, as often are their Republican accusors. The Democrats tend to be totalitarian with strong socialist tendencies, the Republicans tend to be totalitarian with strong fascist tendencies. Both employ "PC BS," and love big government and the intrusive nannystate.
The word "liberal" used to mean "permissive" or "generous", the word "conservative" used to mean "cautious" and "prudent." There's nothing liberal or conservative about attacking the 2nd amendment, but that doesn't stop both political parties from doing it.
[/RANT]
Sgt.Fathead
Moderator
Shoot With Me!
In the past three months I have been pleased to take seven never-shot-before folks down to our local club as my guest. Of this small group of adults, two of them young male teachers at the school where I am employed as a custodian, three female teachers!, six have applied for their basic firearms ID cards. Six.
The seventh, a former student aged 22, decided it was not for him. But, man; six. I'm not that charismatic. It was pretty cold some of the days we went! Shooting is exciting and rewarding. By word of mouth, I'm getting more people asking about it.
They can keep their statistics. I'm gathering new shooters and suggest, respectfully, that any members here not doing so give it a try. Now I have more shooting buddies, more people to make bulk ammo purchases with and more people at my place of work who are becoming competent, safe shooters. Let the anti- groups rant, rave and strut. Grassroots movements. You know, like in 1775!
In the past three months I have been pleased to take seven never-shot-before folks down to our local club as my guest. Of this small group of adults, two of them young male teachers at the school where I am employed as a custodian, three female teachers!, six have applied for their basic firearms ID cards. Six.
The seventh, a former student aged 22, decided it was not for him. But, man; six. I'm not that charismatic. It was pretty cold some of the days we went! Shooting is exciting and rewarding. By word of mouth, I'm getting more people asking about it.
They can keep their statistics. I'm gathering new shooters and suggest, respectfully, that any members here not doing so give it a try. Now I have more shooting buddies, more people to make bulk ammo purchases with and more people at my place of work who are becoming competent, safe shooters. Let the anti- groups rant, rave and strut. Grassroots movements. You know, like in 1775!
Playboypenguin
Moderator
I am afraid I agree with the article also.
I spent a lot of time in WV, MS, and AL and anti-gun sentiment is rampant.
All the old ranges I knew have closed due to lack of business and local gun dealers tell of slowed sales.
Middle class people just don't have any use for guns and have been turned against them by recent events and lower classes have demonized firearms and blamed them for all the violence around them by the younger generation instead of taking responsibility for their own lack of parenting and social involvement.
IMHO, people that want to say "it can't be true because I know more people that shoot now than ever" are living in a fishbowl and people that scream "liberal propaganda" are just refusing to even consider the possible reality.
I spent a lot of time in WV, MS, and AL and anti-gun sentiment is rampant.
All the old ranges I knew have closed due to lack of business and local gun dealers tell of slowed sales.
Middle class people just don't have any use for guns and have been turned against them by recent events and lower classes have demonized firearms and blamed them for all the violence around them by the younger generation instead of taking responsibility for their own lack of parenting and social involvement.
IMHO, people that want to say "it can't be true because I know more people that shoot now than ever" are living in a fishbowl and people that scream "liberal propaganda" are just refusing to even consider the possible reality.
Well someone's figures are off.
Here's the original VPC draft - http://www.vpc.org/studies/gunownership.pdf
Here's a NSSF industry analysis from the same year http://www.nssf.org/news/PR_idx.cfm?PRloc=common/PR/&PR=060506.cfm
There are ~108 Million households in the US, depending on whose figures you use. If 47.8 Million have a firearms in the home, then a little over 44% of households possess a firearm.
Gallup's 2005 polling puts this figure at about 40% w/ 30% of individuals owning a firearm. ( http://www.gallup.com/poll/20098/Gun-Ownership-Use-America.aspx )
The VPC's data apparently derives from the General Social Survey (GSS). NORC compiles this data. The GSS is a rather lengthy in-person survey of 3000 noninstitutionalized adults. It uses what's known as a National area probability sample which attempts to model US demographics. The firearms component may or may not have been administered to the entire sample.
But the critical thing to recognize is that the NORC GSS numbers do not incorporate an analysis of known firearms ownership based on actual records or historical reporting of firearms ownership. Neither does Gallup's for that matter. Their numbers come from the responses to their survey.
Here's the original VPC draft - http://www.vpc.org/studies/gunownership.pdf
Here's a NSSF industry analysis from the same year http://www.nssf.org/news/PR_idx.cfm?PRloc=common/PR/&PR=060506.cfm
There are ~108 Million households in the US, depending on whose figures you use. If 47.8 Million have a firearms in the home, then a little over 44% of households possess a firearm.
Gallup's 2005 polling puts this figure at about 40% w/ 30% of individuals owning a firearm. ( http://www.gallup.com/poll/20098/Gun-Ownership-Use-America.aspx )
The VPC's data apparently derives from the General Social Survey (GSS). NORC compiles this data. The GSS is a rather lengthy in-person survey of 3000 noninstitutionalized adults. It uses what's known as a National area probability sample which attempts to model US demographics. The firearms component may or may not have been administered to the entire sample.
But the critical thing to recognize is that the NORC GSS numbers do not incorporate an analysis of known firearms ownership based on actual records or historical reporting of firearms ownership. Neither does Gallup's for that matter. Their numbers come from the responses to their survey.
Some FACTS about "reality"...
So - according to THIS organization - NORC, there were 65+Million gun owners in 2006*, compared to the est. 57 Million gun owners in 2004**, which is atleast 6 million MORE then the 51million THEY estimated owned them in 2000, compared to the est. 44 Million who owned them in 1997****.
Wow, what startling information! And just HOW DID they decide gun ownership is on the decline???
*According to NORC 2006 National Gun Policy Survey of the National Opinion Research Center "the percentage of Americans who reported personally owning a gun has shrunk to just under 22 percent" vs 299+ Mil Americans in 2006
**2004 estimates of 26% of adults in the US owning at least one firearm, Injury Prevention estimated that 57 million adults owned 283 million firearms
***Smith, “2001 National Gun Policy Survey of the National Opinion Research Center: Research Findings.” (50.6 million individuals who personally own a gun – Applying 24.2% estimate of adult gun owners to 2000 Census total of 209,128,904 adults).
****Philip J. Cook and Jens Ludwig, “Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms”
I know! Let's have Ahmadinejad write an article about Jewish culture, based on "facts" gleamed from a survey conducted by the Nazi party, with Jewish Culture questions funded by Dr Joseph Goebbels, AND we can include comments by Adolf Hitler.
I am SURE the article will be totally non-biased.
So - according to THIS organization - NORC, there were 65+Million gun owners in 2006*, compared to the est. 57 Million gun owners in 2004**, which is atleast 6 million MORE then the 51million THEY estimated owned them in 2000, compared to the est. 44 Million who owned them in 1997****.
Wow, what startling information! And just HOW DID they decide gun ownership is on the decline???
*According to NORC 2006 National Gun Policy Survey of the National Opinion Research Center "the percentage of Americans who reported personally owning a gun has shrunk to just under 22 percent" vs 299+ Mil Americans in 2006
**2004 estimates of 26% of adults in the US owning at least one firearm, Injury Prevention estimated that 57 million adults owned 283 million firearms
***Smith, “2001 National Gun Policy Survey of the National Opinion Research Center: Research Findings.” (50.6 million individuals who personally own a gun – Applying 24.2% estimate of adult gun owners to 2000 Census total of 209,128,904 adults).
****Philip J. Cook and Jens Ludwig, “Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms”
I know! Let's have Ahmadinejad write an article about Jewish culture, based on "facts" gleamed from a survey conducted by the Nazi party, with Jewish Culture questions funded by Dr Joseph Goebbels, AND we can include comments by Adolf Hitler.
I am SURE the article will be totally non-biased.
I think these kinds of surveys are conducted largely on or around collage campuses. Once you get out of the urban areas and into the country, virtually every household has guns and usually several guns. So if you combine that with the reportedly increased number of people in the cities who are purchasing guns where concealed carry has been instituted I strongly suspect that the reality is something much different that the article suggests.
The media and organizations such as the one conducting this survey work very, very hard at trying to sway public opinion thereby influencing the voting choices of the public. One of the primary methods of accomplishing this is by way of the media. The goal is to create the belief that the overwhelming majority of the population believes a certain way so ip-so fac-to, so should you. It is way, way past time that the public needs to wake up to the fact the media absolutely has an agenda that they are working very, very hard at achieving.
Reminds me of a quote I heard the other day. “Figures can lie and liars can figure”.
The media and organizations such as the one conducting this survey work very, very hard at trying to sway public opinion thereby influencing the voting choices of the public. One of the primary methods of accomplishing this is by way of the media. The goal is to create the belief that the overwhelming majority of the population believes a certain way so ip-so fac-to, so should you. It is way, way past time that the public needs to wake up to the fact the media absolutely has an agenda that they are working very, very hard at achieving.
Reminds me of a quote I heard the other day. “Figures can lie and liars can figure”.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
I can't put too much weight on this study since it collects no data what-so-ever on where the firearms are going. It does not take into account if they are distributed equally, hoarded by collectors, sitting on manufacturers shelves, or distributed to law enforcement, etc. You have to actually get out there and see who ends up with the firearms. It also does not take into account the millions of firearms that are seized, destroyed, or just become non-functional each year.
I know a lot of people say that some studies suggest that there are more functioning guns in the US than there are people. Even if that is true, which it probably is, that does not in anyway indicate how many people own guns. How many people do you know that just own one and how many people do you know that own ten, twenty, thirty, forty, or fifty plus.
I would also love to see a study that excludes rifles. I noticed in this study rifles are the main component.
I do not think rifle ownership is a good indicator of people's belief on gun ownership since I think a lot of people separate rifles and handguns in their minds. We all know hunters that have a couple rifles, or people that have a shotgun for home defense but are in truth anti-gun when it comes to handguns.
I agree. I live in Western Mass where there are still some gun owners left in this state, but the majority of them are Fudds. Shooting sports around here are geared towards hunters. Few Clubs even have a pistol range. The gun owners that frequent the local range during the start of hunting season sighting in their chosen long arm are closet anti's. Sometimes I can not believe my own ears on the comments they make on my Assault rifle, or handguns. It's sounds like they are quoting directly off the Brady Website. Many of them have this view that the RKBA is only for hunting, and maybe self defense. This view point is common among hunters, and even clay shooters. Not saying they all believe that, but many of them do at least in this neck of the woods.
I would agree on the rifle issue as well.
as to the "how many do your friends own", I own 2 handguns and a shotgun, and a .22 rifle. My handgun collection will be growing as I get a new carry gun, if I can ever decide on which of the ones I'm considering, as well as specific ones for competition use.
But the friend that got me started, his count is over 50, some for collecting, most for shooting, though he only uses a few regularly. And he has many friends that all own, and it would be my expectation that each of those persons probably has 5 or more based on my conversations with them and their views on guns.
So I can't deny it would seem reasonable there are fewer owners today than 50 years ago, but I would also suspect there are more owners now than 20 years ago. The National Gun show here is always packed, there are gun shows every week somewhere within about an hour, and all the ranges I shoot competition at you have to call/contact them quickly or you don't get in. At the NRAHQ range, my friend called about an 80 minutes after signups started for next weeks shoot, and there were only 2 spots left in the time frames we try to shoot.
I routinely meet people that are looking for their first pistol, so as I was affected by the VT shooting, it seems especially around me in VA, more people are becoming aware they need to take protection personally.
as to the "how many do your friends own", I own 2 handguns and a shotgun, and a .22 rifle. My handgun collection will be growing as I get a new carry gun, if I can ever decide on which of the ones I'm considering, as well as specific ones for competition use.
But the friend that got me started, his count is over 50, some for collecting, most for shooting, though he only uses a few regularly. And he has many friends that all own, and it would be my expectation that each of those persons probably has 5 or more based on my conversations with them and their views on guns.
So I can't deny it would seem reasonable there are fewer owners today than 50 years ago, but I would also suspect there are more owners now than 20 years ago. The National Gun show here is always packed, there are gun shows every week somewhere within about an hour, and all the ranges I shoot competition at you have to call/contact them quickly or you don't get in. At the NRAHQ range, my friend called about an 80 minutes after signups started for next weeks shoot, and there were only 2 spots left in the time frames we try to shoot.
I routinely meet people that are looking for their first pistol, so as I was affected by the VT shooting, it seems especially around me in VA, more people are becoming aware they need to take protection personally.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
The one we have here monthly, the largest in the Northwest, is also always packed...with food vendors, people selling turquoise jewelry, expedition reps, boat salesmen, airsoft guns salesmen, etc. and even a couple tables of people selling guns.
haha
the big show here is quarterly, and probably has 6 to 8 major dealers. Multiple ammo sellers, lots of smaller collector types with limited numbers of used pistols, and more of a focus on long guns, especially older war era ones.
But there are LOTS of guns being bought. I typically buy from Trader Jerry, who comes up to these shows from Southern Va., so he's probably 5 or 6 hours away. He'll always have the most tables, and the most handguns at any show I've seen him at. And you have to fight to get to the table, and the FFL paperwork is flowing back and forth nonstop. When I've bought from him, it seems there are 5 to 10 applications in the process at all times. Meaning as one is completed there is usually another just getting filled out and turned in. The other dealers are not as busy as he is, in my estimation, but he is also usually the lowest price on most of the guns he sells. He is sometimes undersold, not by much, and rarely on everything another vendor has. Usually it's a specific line or model.
Sounds like the NW needs better shows No boats or food vendors, the places the shows are held have food areas in them already, there's usually a vendor with a lot of airsoft stuff, there's usually a Nazi table, never quite got that one, there will actually be a LOT of WWII based tables. Some have weapons, many are old trinkets and such for history collectors. There are always a few ammo vendors, and holster vendors, some magazine only vendors, at the National show, there's a Glock armorer who comes down from PA and will drop in new triggers, mag releases, sights, etc., in a couple minutes. There are always a few vendors of things like scopes and flashlights and knifes. Can't say there are any tables NOT firearm or war collecting related. Sounds like your shows are outdoorsman shows, not Gun shows come on out to Chantilly sometime and check out the National Gun show
My buddy is from Missouri, and has been to that big show in Oklahoma or Kansas, somewhere out there that's suppose to be the biggest gun show in the country. He complains that it's only long guns, it's almost impossible to find a good hand gun vendor. Guess that's a sign of the different views and needs of different parts of the country
the big show here is quarterly, and probably has 6 to 8 major dealers. Multiple ammo sellers, lots of smaller collector types with limited numbers of used pistols, and more of a focus on long guns, especially older war era ones.
But there are LOTS of guns being bought. I typically buy from Trader Jerry, who comes up to these shows from Southern Va., so he's probably 5 or 6 hours away. He'll always have the most tables, and the most handguns at any show I've seen him at. And you have to fight to get to the table, and the FFL paperwork is flowing back and forth nonstop. When I've bought from him, it seems there are 5 to 10 applications in the process at all times. Meaning as one is completed there is usually another just getting filled out and turned in. The other dealers are not as busy as he is, in my estimation, but he is also usually the lowest price on most of the guns he sells. He is sometimes undersold, not by much, and rarely on everything another vendor has. Usually it's a specific line or model.
Sounds like the NW needs better shows
No boats or food vendors, the places the shows are held have food areas in them already, there's usually a vendor with a lot of airsoft stuff, there's usually a Nazi table, never quite got that one, there will actually be a LOT of WWII based tables. Some have weapons, many are old trinkets and such for history collectors. There are always a few ammo vendors, and holster vendors, some magazine only vendors, at the National show, there's a Glock armorer who comes down from PA and will drop in new triggers, mag releases, sights, etc., in a couple minutes. There are always a few vendors of things like scopes and flashlights and knifes. Can't say there are any tables NOT firearm or war collecting related. Sounds like your shows are outdoorsman shows, not Gun shows come on out to Chantilly sometime and check out the National Gun show My buddy is from Missouri, and has been to that big show in Oklahoma or Kansas, somewhere out there that's suppose to be the biggest gun show in the country. He complains that it's only long guns, it's almost impossible to find a good hand gun vendor. Guess that's a sign of the different views and needs of different parts of the country
Here in Houston we have probably one show a month or very close to it. Also I remember just before Christmas all the bigger dealers like “Gander Mountain” and the range I frequent, “Carter’s Country” any time you went in there you couldn’t get waited on because everyone was busy filling out the paperwork for gun purchases. Needless to say, right after Christmas the sales fall off for a while.
Omega blood
New member
I think is BS. The never called me. 
Maybe it's because I'm a city slicking middle aged brown man.
I have to agree though, if it is fading it's because of increased restrictions.
Maybe it's because I'm a city slicking middle aged brown man.I have to agree though, if it is fading it's because of increased restrictions.
another problem is lack of ranges. We have a good local range burn down because some twit fired tracer rounds that caught the rubber backing on fire. They've been trying but it seems the property owner is going to not rebuild, and use this as an excuse to tear down that old shopping center and turn it into an apartment complex.
So the bigger question becomes, will the county all the range a new home? As I see it, there needs to be more convenience for people to go out. Too many ranges have rules like you have to use their ammo at inflated prices, and at the prices of ammo today, sheesh, who can shoot all the often?? How do we get our ammo prices to drop? Pull out of Iraq?? haha
So the bigger question becomes, will the county all the range a new home? As I see it, there needs to be more convenience for people to go out. Too many ranges have rules like you have to use their ammo at inflated prices, and at the prices of ammo today, sheesh, who can shoot all the often?? How do we get our ammo prices to drop? Pull out of Iraq?? haha