American plinking ammo should compete with wolf....

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Evil Monkey

New member
Wolf is raping the American shooter for plinking ammo because they have no competition what so ever.

American brass cased and copper jacketed 308 is running 50cent+ per round but wolf 308 which is steel cased and steel jacketed is running around 45cents per round? because they CAN.

Look at 45acp. Brass cased, copper coated American rounds are running around 30-35+cents...........so is wolf.:rolleyes: Now how does that make any sense?


This is ridiculous. I'd bet a direct competitor to the Russian ammo manufacturer would cause both companies to drop their whole line up about a dime or more per round.
 
I guess Im safe because I personally dont shoot inferior ammo in any of my handguns or rifles which in my opinion is exactly what wolf is. Im also a reloader so I actually benefit from shooting brass cased ammo where I wouldnt if I were shooting wolf. Even if I didnt reload I would not buy wolf or tula or any other crappy brand of ammo. If you want to, more power to you.
 
I bought two boxes of wolf in 5.56 because because all the internet fanboys told me how great it was. After shooting box number one I never opened box number two. That was six years ago.

I guess if you shoot it all the time and get used to you probably think it is alright. Of course if you drive a Zil all the time you might think it is a really nice car too.
 
Well it really isn't "raping" if we keep buying it. IMO, the average Joe gun owner is more concerned about the cost of an afternoon of fun at 50-200yds than with the science of velocity, weight, MOA, chronographs, and ballistic gels. It might be cheaper to reload, yes, but again a lot of us don't have the time. Varying opinions on dirtier ammo, failures and such won't deter most from spending either $4.19 on a box of steel cased ammo or double that for American brass that you may or may not even see a noticeable difference in for the purpose of an afternoon at the range. I do use steel cased in just about all calibers. I also use brass. If I can hit my targets with consistency using "inferior" imported steel cased, I already know I'm an ace with Premium:D
 
Are you willing to pay the costs to re tool the American ammunition manufacturers?

Are you willing to reduce the pay of the American ammo company's employees to the Russian levels?

Should the ammunition companies alienate their customers who reload?

Should the rest of the ammunition buying public accept the lesser accuracy that your cheaper ammunition (QC costs money) would bring?

Is it possible to not be vulgar in your opening sentence?

The customer drives the product, industry produces what is demanded at the price point demanded.
 
American plinking ammo should compete with wolf....

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Wolf is raping the American shooter for plinking ammo because they have no competition what so ever.

American brass cased and copper jacketed 308 is running 50cent+ per round but wolf 308 which is steel cased and steel jacketed is running around 45cents per round? because they CAN.
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This has to be one of the worst market analyses I have ever seen. To blame Wolf for being the least expensive .308 ammo you know of because Wolf isn't cheaper is ridiculous. If American manufacturers aren't willing to try to compete more head to head with Wolf, the problem is NOT with Wolf. If you are willing to pay Wolf's price, the problem is not with Wolf.

Contrary to your claim, however, Wolf does have competition from American ammo companies. Wolf is winning in regard to getting a product to market at the lowest price as compared to American companies.

Also contrary to your claim, Wolf does have competition that is more direct. It is not from American companies with brass cased ammo, however. It is from the combloc manufacturers of Brown Bear, Silver Bear, Tula, and MFS ammo. Not only is there competition with Wolf by these companies, at least one sells their .308 for less than Wolf, Tula (CTD has it for 40 cents a round).

I realize that you think Wolf is charging too much for their ammo despite it being less expensive than its American made competition, but you also forget a critical factor about costs. Unlike American made ammo that is made here, combloc ammo is made overseas and has to be shipped here. This does cause additional expense that American companies do not face.

Wolf is not raping the American shooter because American companies cannot compete more directly with them and the American shooter is willing to pay that amount. You have obviously misplaced blame because you don't like Wolf's shrewd business practices.
We are a market economy.
 
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Ammo prices are currently a perfect storm of rising metal prices, China buying up most of these metals to fuel its massive industrialization, the decline in value of the dollar, an antigun socialist sitting in the oval office, and a meteoric rise in military and police consumption since 9-11. Each of these factors makes the others worse.
 
Ammo prices are currently a perfect storm of rising metal prices, China buying up most of these metals to fuel its massive industrialization, the decline in value of the dollar, an antigun socialist sitting in the oval office...
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<activate Valley Girl voice> Your post is SOOO 2 years ago. ;)

<deactivate voice>

Metal prices have fallen due to ongoing worldwide financial cancer. They aren't as low as they were in the late 80s and early 90s, but metal prices then were abnormally low, a historical anomaly.

Ammo prices are down. Dealers are overstocked. Same story as the above. Check with old-timers re: ammo prices in the 50s and 60s and you'll see that current prices are in line with historic prices when adjusted for inflation, and slightly lower if anything.

Dollar has gone up due to ongoing financial disaster in Europe.

As for the administration, they are not actively pushing gun control; the usual suspects in Congress have re-filed the usual bills, but they would have done this anyway, and they're going nowhere as usual. :rolleyes:
 
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It is from the combloc manufacturers of Brown Bear, Silver Bear, Tula, and MFS ammo
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I'm pretty sure they are all the same company just different packagers. Wolf is a packager. They buy ammo and resell it. When I say "wolf" I really mean the manufacturer which is tula cartridge works. I figure most of us here understand "wolf" better than "tula cartridge works".

I guess Im safe because I personally dont shoot inferior ammo in any of my handguns or rifles which in my opinion is exactly what wolf is.
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Most of this sentiment is derived from companies like wolf not doing proper quality control. They constantly let out of spec rounds into boxes. The problem is NOT steel casings and jacket. If tomorrow Federal/Winchester/Remington started making steel cased and steel jacketed ammo, it would absolutely be better than the russian stuff.

On the topic of metal, copper is the offending metal as to why ammo is so costly. When's the last time you saw copper jacketed FMJ pistol ammo? I don't think I've ever seen such a thing, as they are all copper coated (electroplating). I figure these ammo manufacturers in the states can at least use steel jackets for their rifle bullets and pass the savings onto us. Save the copper jackets for the premium hunting/defense stuff.

Ammo by its very nature is expendable and non-recoverable. It makes sense to make it as low cost as possible. There's no reason to make FMJ plinking ammo out of expensive materials unless the guns that use them can't handle steel casings and jackets.
 
They constantly let out of spec rounds into boxes.
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I'd be interested in seeing the evidence of this as compared to US manufacturing.

Btw, just did a check on the named ammo Wolf, Tulammo, and Brown Bear and they are different manufacturers.
 
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I'd be interested in seeing the evidence of this as compared to US manufacturing.
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I can only go off of my own experiences firing thousands of rounds of russian ammo. I am seeing gouged necks, dead primers, rounds that won't fit into the chamber, bullets that are bent sideways, etc.

I still buy them because it's economical to shoot and I'm not stupid, I check every single round before putting them into my firearms, that includes American brass cased "high quality" stuff too.

Btw, just did a check on the named ammo Wolf, Tulammo, and Brown Bear and they are different manufacturers.
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I am fairly certain that.....

Wolf, WPA, Tulammo, are all from Tula Cartridge Works.

and Brown/Silver/Golden bear, Golden Tiger, are from Barnual Ammunition.
 
I can only go off of my own experiences firing thousands of rounds of russian ammo. I am seeing gouged necks, dead primers, rounds that won't fit into the chamber, bullets that are bent sideways, etc.

I still buy them because it's economical to shoot and I'm not stupid, I check every single round before putting them into my firearms, that includes American brass cased "high quality" stuff too.
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Seems like we have a logical contradiction here.... LOL Wolf is crap you seem all these defects yet you continue to buy it because it is economical?

I can consistently buy higher quality 9mm and 45 for about the same unit cost as Wolf. You have to be wiliing to buy in bulk 1000 rounds at a time and look for deals but it is really not that hard. I buys stuff like Federal/RWS/PMC/Blaser Brass/Champion etc..... all of it brass cased.

If I wanted US origin aluminum cased ammo Blaser AKA Federal sells it and it is a little cheaper but not enough to justify it over brass. I don't even reload but sell or give brass to guys who do in exchange for loaded ammo. Win Win!!!

I never have less than 1000 FMJ + 250 JHP in this these calibers. I really do not get what your argument is.
 
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ammo prices are down. Dealers are overstocked. Same story as the above. Check with old-timers re: Ammo prices in the 50s and 60s and you'll see that current prices are in line with historic prices when adjusted for inflation, and slightly lower if anything.
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winner winner chicken dinner!!!!!!!
 
Seems like we have a logical contradiction here.... LOL Wolf is crap you seem all these defects yet you continue to buy it because it is economical?
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well when you get a bad round per 100 rounds it's not really a major problem.

I really do not get what your argument is.
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my arguement is simple. 100% of FMJ target ammo end up in a dirt berm. There is no sense in using brass casings and copper jackets in this day and age for that type of ammo, as it costs too much. The American manufacturer should try to compete with the Russians in the target ammo market, which is much stronger than premium hunting/defense ammo market.
 
my arguement is simple. 100% of FMJ target ammo end up in a dirt berm. There is no sense in using brass casings and copper jackets in this day and age for that type of ammo, as it costs too much. The American manufacturer should try to compete with the Russians in the target ammo market, which is much stronger than premium hunting/defense ammo market.
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They do compete as I stated I purchase brass cased copper washed jackets all the time within $1 of the cheapest bottom of the barrel Wolff ammo on the market in every caliber I shoot.

Not all manufacturing is a race to the bottom. Why would any business erode their own margin and market share?

You like steel ammo and think it is the right tool for the job. Good for you keep buying it but please refrain from tell the rest of us what is good enough or what we should be using to plink with.....Your assertion and your conclusion are flawed.

Wolff charges what the market will bear. You have no idea what the actual cost of the ammo that Wolff produces is. You can speculate all you want but the reality is you do not know. Seems to me you are making huge assumptions.
 
If you cant find .223 for less than $6 a box you arent looking to hard. So for a dollar and change I will get 20pcs of brass and 20 rounds down range 99.9% of the time that is usually more accurate and cleaner. Not always but most of the time.
 
Wolf, WPA, Tulammo, are all from Tula Cartridge Works.

and Brown/Silver/Golden bear, Golden Tiger, are from Barnual Ammunition.
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Wolf Black Box is from Tula Cartridge Works.

Wolf Military Classic is from Ulyanovsk.

The "Bears" are Barnaul.

Golden Tiger is Vympel.



Tulammo's site claimed they were not the same as Wolf ammo but I have trouble believing that looking at the cartridges.
 
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