America!!! Your military has just fired its warning shot!

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As a serving Armor officer in the National Guard, I, too, have has a lot a thoughts about my continued service under the current/possible future administration. I interface almost daily with my active duty brothers at Ft Rucker, AL. To a man, they all have the same thoughts and concerns. We have spent hours, before and after class, discussing this debacle as it unfolds.
I have decided that for now I will continue to serve for the very reasons mentioned here. I have seen the quality of the young recruits coming in to the service and I can say that is has changed. Few have any clue as to the constitution and it's limits on powers. When I was a company commander, I spent much off duty time with my enlisted troops discussing this great document it's history and it's meaning. Many eyes were opened, including mine. For now, I believe that I can do more good in uniform than out.
 
Your Hornet

Fast Eagle, since the US Military won't let me fly (my eyes are only like 20/50, 20/20 corrected) you can keep your hornet on the 20 acres of land we have. We have a barn, and it's in the middle of nowhere, so it won't be found. Plus, it's next to a little used straight-stretch of level highway! I'll pay for fuel, but you gotta teach me how to fly it!! :)
 
Hang in there

John,

Thanks for standing tall these past 8 long years. I understand your frustration and I don't blame you for saying "enough is enough". Actually, I don't know how you've stood it so long, working under Slick Willie for 8 years.

We the people do need you where you are but no one can fault you for leaving. Keep your powder dry, it ain't over yet though.
 
On the positive side, if the military was turned on us, their planes would fall apart and their tanks would break down due to no money for maintainence....

Seriously, I fully support an exodus from the armed forces if Gore steals the presidency. It will raise awareness about exactly what he means to our national defense. They can always reenlist down the line if things improve. Even a few hundred thousand people retiring from the military would make waves politically. If you do it though, you MUST make noise about it afterwards. It serves no purpose if the people don't understand why it's happening.
 
I just knew this story would be relevant on some topic:


More Than Rank Splits Army's Stars and Bars

By Thomas E. Ricks
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, November 19, 2000; Page A02

A surprisingly candid new Army study concludes that captains are leaving the service in droves mainly because of a generation gap between baby boomer generals and Generation X junior officers. But it also blames President Clinton's scandals, among other things, for undercutting younger officers' respect for authority.
The Army has grown alarmed in recent months because so many captains are leaving that it fears it might have trouble filling leadership positions within a few years. In 1989, just as the Cold War was ending, 6.7 percent of Army captains left voluntarily. In 1999, the number climbed to 10.6 percent, a 58 percent increase.
An internal Army forecast that hasn't been released predicts the departure rate will climb this year to about 13 percent. This steady rise is especially disconcerting because captains constitute the largest rank cohort in the Army, accounting for about one-third of commissioned officers.
"We're losing a generation of good leaders," the report quotes one Army colonel as saying.
Written by Leonard Wong, a recently retired Army lieutenant colonel who is on the staff of the Army War College's Strategic Studies Institute, the report concludes that the heart of the problem is that "today's senior officers do not understand today's junior officers or their perspectives."
Generals and colonels incorrectly assume that today's captains share their values and life experiences, Wong argues. But Generation X officers, born between 1960 and 1980 and now serving as lieutenants, captains and majors, have a very different view of the world than baby boomers born between the end of World War II and 1960, says Wong, who holds a doctorate in organizational behavior and management.
Growing up in two-career families in which divorce became widespread, with 40 percent of their cohorts spending at least some time in a single-parent home, "Xers became the ultimate latchkey children," Wong said.
As adults and officers, members of this generation tend to be extremely skeptical of authority and less inclined to sacrifice time with families to succeed at work. So, he notes, only 21 percent of captains surveyed by the Army in 1998 said that the Army permitted them to maintain a good balance between work and personal life, compared with 47 percent of captains in 1988.
They also are less impressed with authority, Wong finds. "They have been let down by too many authority figures, ranging from their overworked parents to their commander in chief," he writes.
Asked about this and another critical reference in the study to Clinton, Wong said in an interview that "I know it raises eyebrows." But, he added, "I'm a civilian now," having retired Sept. 1.
Wong is just as critical of the Army's current leaders. He recommends that today's generals and colonels stop assuming that they understand their subordinates and instead shut up and listen to them. "Spend 95 percent of the time listening and 5 percent of the time giving advice," he counsels.
The report also takes commanders to task for reassuring themselves with the dismissive adage that soldiers always bellyache. The difference nowadays, he writes, is that "the complaining soldiers are acting on their grievances."
The gap between generations is widened by the skepticism of younger officers, who are holding their superiors to far higher standards than in the past, Wong says. In the 1998 Army survey, 18 percent of captains said they were dissatisfied with their senior officers, compared with 6 percent in 1988.
Despite that dissatisfaction, today's junior officers trust the Army as an institution even more than their predecessors, according to survey data cited by Wong. In 1998, 76 percent said they trusted the Army to help people when needed, slightly higher than the 73 percent who said that 10 years earlier. Likewise, today's captains overwhelmingly report in surveys that they are proud to tell people they are in the Army and that they value the sense of community it gives them.
Wong recommends that the Army build on that desire for community by making it a "fun place in which to work and live," with more social activities and more recreation geared to the "extreme sport" tastes of Generation X, such as mountain biking and rock climbing. He also called on the Army to revive initiation rituals such as "prop blasts," which have been discouraged in recent years because they have been associated with hazing and alcohol abuse.
The study concludes by warning that the Army needs to get serious about addressing this generation gap because it soon will have a new wrinkle in its demography. The young people entering the Army this year as freshly minted second lieutenants, he notes, are from yet another generation, the group born after 1980 that has been dubbed "Generation Y," "the Nintendo Generation" or "Generation Next."
© 2000 The Washington Post Company

Dick
Want to send a message to Bush? Sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/monk/petition.html and forward the link to every gun owner you know.
 
As one of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children, I had the privilage if serving under Republican administrations. Even had VP candidate Cheney as a SecDef.

Just want to say I'm behind the military all the way. Bottom line:
-Gore elected -> military deserts-> ???

Guess I'll side with the grunts.

SEMPER FI!

S.
 
Bless you, sir. I hope it doesn't come to all of this. I did notice one thing that, as Gore continues to steal the election, he is steadily losing support of even the media. That may be more important than the next 4 years.
 
Fast-

Where the hell were you during the last few years of my life??? I just got out of the Navy a few months ago. I sure as hell hope you've shared your phelosephy with those around you.

I served on an SSBN in the nuclear power field- and talk about brass with their heads rammed so far up their rears they'd NEVER seen the light of day.... it's all about sucking up to the next higher level. My commander BLATANTLY dis-obeyed some of the fundimental safety proceedures regarding the operation of a nuclear reactor so he'd make it out to sea on time.... then coverd it up by distroying several days worth of logs.

There is very much the idea that the ends justify the means. I got out of the military because I was so fearfull of this, knowing that the brass I knew would walk head long into anything they were told to with out THINKING about it. I'm quite confident that if my ship had gotten an order to launch nukes on a domestic target.... the birds would have flown. I hope to God that isn't the mantallity elsewhere.

It is true that those entering the service now are absolutely brain washed. Not "bullet chewing mercenary" brainwashing- the opposite. This is now "just a desk job", we are "kinder and gentler", and these moron 17 and 18 year old kids can't even tie their own shoes without direction from a khaki. I'm afraid they would march right in line with any orders handed down, and not for a moment think "gee... this ain't right". I posed the question plenty of times, and 99.9999999999% of those I talked to, ALL gave the same answer "Well, there's nothing you or I can do about it, so we may as well just do what we are told.... it's 'better' that way".

I hope you'd stick around and rattle the cages from within. If the senior brass bails out, that just means a bunch of butter bars get promoted quicker, and none of them will give a damn.

Best of luck, and thanks for doing SOMETHING to stand up to ALL ENEMIES- foregn AND *domestic*.

-Jest
 
current military brainwashing

I'm afraid he wasn't exaggerating. I went though basic an AIT at Fort Leonard Wood, for MOS 12B, from June 17 to Sept 30 1999. Here are some of my impressions.

-Our drill sergeants repeatedly stressed the evils of being an individual. Sure, I can work in a team, and I can shut up and follow orders, but I'm still me, d@mn it!

-We were taught the Code of Conduct (which applies to ALL the armed forces) only once. But every day it was Army this, Army Values, Army that, love the Army, the Army is always right, the Army issue weapons are the best in the world (even the M60...yeech!!), yadda yadda yadda.

-Our actual training was limited, at best. As a combat engineer, I was trained on light and heavy demolitions, a very dangerous job. You know how long we spent acutally training for demo? One friggin' week.

-The only time anyone mentioned the Constitution was when we were sworn in.

-Some of our drill sergeants were noticably irritated by the amount of political correctness forced upon them. One drill sergeant said we should allow for 25% casualties in training, like the russians do. FYI, that was 20 guys in my platoon. That's a little extreme to me.

-We spent all of four hours on hand-to-hand combat, and one day on bayonet. I never acutally got to handle a real bayonet, 'cause they ran out before they got to me.

-We didn't get to go through the whole confidence course. We were divided up into groups and each group did like three things. We weren't allowed to wear gloves for it, and I got 2nd degree burns on both of my hands on the slide for life. Ouchies!

-So many of the Army's standards seemed...well, ARBITRARY. It's like they just pulled the numbers out of their butts and made them the standard. I often wanted to ask what some of the standards were based on, but we never asked questions. Asking questions outiside of a class usually resulted in you doing quite a few pushups.

-We got to throw all of two live hand grenades, and each got to fire 50 rounds out of an M60, as well as about three practice tracer rounds out of a dummy AT-4 rocket launcher. Oh yeah, we got to watch one real claymore set off, but it was hard to see 'cause we were 200 meters back. That was the bulk of our non-M16 weapons training. Never even laid eyes on a SAW.

Basically, it seems that a large portion of the Army has their be-kevlar-ed heads up their a@@es. Ouchies! Given the readiness problems so prieminent today, I don' think I'm alone in this opinion...
 
My interpretation of the

Each person enlisting in an armed force shall take the following oath:

''I, _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.''

Resign!?!?

Not a flame, but I suggest you re-read the oath above. Pay particular attention to those words and phrases I have highlighted.

As you stated you have sworn no "true faith and allegiance to...the President of the United States and...the officers appointed over me...".

It is beyond obvious what the Military needs to do.

There was no recind clause in the oath or on our DD214's.

Plenty of Vets waiting and depending on you.

gadsden-anim.gif


Sgt.K
A U.S.Army Vet

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Expect No Mercy
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I never acutally got to handle a real bayonet, 'cause they ran out before they got to me.

Such a lovely little summary of the state of our national defense....

Next thing you know we'll have a missile defense system that is supposed to stop nukes, and the one nuke that is fired at us will pass right over the launch station that didn't get any intercept missiles because they ran out right before they got to that one.

Do you really fear your military turning on you all that much? Frankly, after what Clinton has done to them, I fear the police more than I'd ever fear the army.

I can picture it now, president Gore declares some poor group outlaw cause they have a bayonet lug on their M1 Garand(outlawed by that point), and so he sends the national gaurd in to get them. Then of course the operation is called off after 4 F-16s, 3 Blackhawks, an M113, and an M-1 Abrams, 63 SAWs, 21 M-60s, and hundreds of M-16A2s all die.... of mechanical breakdown, no shots fired between either side... then of course the ATF goes in and kills everyone by boobytrapping their kids with grenades and declaring it an accidental explosion in the group's illegal arsenal.
 
The Military

Fast Eagle, I don't blame you. However get your 20 in. I spent 6 years in the reserves before I went on active duty after college. I spent 22 years active, and retired in 1979. If I had been on active duty under Clinton, I would have resigned if I had less than 15 years. I wouldn't let that reprobate me beat out of retirement, and you shouldn't either. However I would have immediately retired at 20 and made no secret why. I believe our senior flag grade officers have become political hacks and don't have the courage to stand for the country. If I was on active duty and Clinton passed me I would show him every respect, because I was a good officer. Then I would go find a place to vomit. If the military senior officers had retired en masse when Clinton started the homosexual stuff they would have won with the Congress. It takes something drastic sometimes. I pledged to defend the Constitution. I would obey all lawful orders, but I wouldn't serve under such as Clinton and Gore any longer than I had to. Best to you and those who serve with you, my brothers in arms. Jerry
 
Fast Eagle,
I understand how you feel and applaude your principles, however please reconsider. Men like you are exactly who we need in the military today. Look around you at all the young fresh faces in uniform. Most are just kids who want to do their duty, but really don't understand. If and when the grossly unconstitutional order is given, it is YOU and other senior officers like you who these confused young Americans will turn to for guidience. At this moment of truth is were you can make a real difference.
Think about it.
 
FastEagle, you know, if you're looking for souvenirs, B-61 gravity bombs make lovely parting gifts. :) Try for the enhanced version in the 500KT range.

By the way, everyone should start reading up on their history. I would commend to you the account of the 2nd American Revolution, fought in Athens, TN, 1947, when veterans retook the local government through force of arms after Democrats stole it. Perhaps a lesson for all of us?
 
2nd American revolution, lol. Hardly. They barely managed to pull it off and had to steal or borrow most of the guns they used, and hardly had enough ammo to do the job. They did it of course, but I would hardly call it the 2nd American revolution. Still, it was commendable that they got proactive and didn't put up with any crap. If we had more Americans like that today we'd be in a lot better shape.
 
FastEagle:

I agree with your feelingsand applaude your principles, but you have to stay for your full twenty. You've gone too far to rip yourself off. Also those young sailors just starting out NEED YOUR leadership. How about You and your buddies teaching courses on Constitutional Law & History? Basic first aid, damage control, military honor & duties, others would count too! Maybe help put togther a "Terrorism Pack" (to be kept in your pocket or fanny pack) a list of first actions & materials to save lives & the ship in the event of an explosion or fire. Pick out a group and teach them as much as you can while you can. You may not be able to reach out to everyone, but get some. They don't know enough to keep themselves and the command afloat when the DEVIL arrives bearing gifts. I spent my reserve time teaching the younger generation about the USS Stark, and how to stay alive & afloat. Lets also realize that the USS Cole almost sank at the pier. If you and your fellows leave, you take all that institutional knowledge with you. Besides we need you to guard the gates of hell while we are fighting the forces evil here at home. We don't want some Quadaffi wanna'be knocking while we are a'rockin. Besides if the wheels come off it would be nice to make the bad guys wake up to the smell of "NAPLAM in the morning". There are a lot of back woods airfields around you guys could operate from with our full support. Westchester airport over here has tons of gas.

You guys have our support no matter what. Hang in there.

P.S. the Police are not going to be a major problem, they know, we know where they live.
 
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