America on the Verge

Dangus - This is not a key part of your argument, so it's no big deal, but the unions did not support Hitler's political party. They voted for the SPD, the Social democratic party. Hitler's party, the NSDAP, was mostly supported by small business people and lower middle class white collar workers. When Hitler took power he immediately destroyed the unions.

I could give you a dozen sources on this, but the easiest is to cite the standard textbook, Spielvogel, "Hitler and Nazi Germany," page 96 (workers voted SPD) and page 63 (NSDAP mostly lower-middle class.)

Nor were there unions in the USSR telling workers what to do. Totalitarian states do not allow unions, because they give workers a way to organize and have a voice.


[This message has been edited by RHC (edited August 03, 2000).]
 
Jack99,
Is it possible that you are incorrect about the Tofflers?
They wrote about the Third Wave, the decentralized information economy that we are transitioning to. They say that fat central governments can not function in such an environment and will be bypassed, ignored, or collapse.

They also predict civil wars and national seperations. The third way is Fascisms' economic plan, a foolish blend of Capitalism and Socialism. The Tofflers do not advocate central control of economies. The tell us this is impossible.

On a side note.

I find it very interesting that the Oligarchs actualy advocate the third way and call it by name. Any student of history knows what they mean. Shows you how confident they are, and how ignorant they assume the populace to be.
But at the same time, our economy moves so fast and is going to move faster. Their totalitarian vision can not work.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I could give you a dozen sources on this, but the easiest is to cite the standard textbook, Spielvogel, "Hitler and Nazi Germany," page 96 (workers voted SPD) and page 63 (NSDAP mostly lower-middle class.)[/quote]

Sorry about that mistaken side-note. I was mixing my WW2 history up with WW1 history... oops

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Nor were there unions in the USSR telling workers what to do. Totalitarian states do not allow unions, because they give workers a way to organize and have a voice.[/quote]

My whole point was that the USSR basically was like a giant labor union. They may have not allowed "other" labor unions though :)

Sorry about the technicalities there, but I think the general spirit of that particular paragraph remains intact, though criticism is certainly welcome so long as it remains civil :)

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I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
 
Yes, I could be wrong.

Seems that the Toffler's have some connection to "The Third Way" though. I'll look into it.

Toffler's wrong though. The Gubmint stays valid and relevant as long as they have a monopoly on force, which is the case in most of the industrialized world. That's why its extremely important to maintain the RKBA here. No matter how "advanced" we become, no matter how much technology changes society, the real foundation of power is still rooted in rifles and lead.

And yes, they are quite arrogant to roll this out again and try to pass it off as something new. Very good analogy in this thread ("spritzing up the corpse and dousing it with some perfume.") Pretty insulting too considering that many of those who had to fight and watch thier buddies die the last time we had to defeat the "Super States" are still alive and well remember the lessons.

By the way, I believe the Bolsheviks were very much like one big, armed Labor Union. Stalin's rise to power changed the whole dynamic though.
 
Dangus, well said.

Hopeful signs amidst the doom and gloom:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>The growing number of homeschoolers (Free young minds from PC meddlers. Prove that even without gov't control, people can still be responsible.)
<LI>The internet explosion (Make friends across the country. Race, sex, accents are invisible and irrelevant. Use text as well as pictures -- text requires thought, other media merely get absorbed without thought.)
<LI>The growing number of people turning off the TV (Or turning away from the Big Three mind controllers. No matter what else they're doing, it probably takes more thought than staring at the tube.)
<LI>The popularity of talk radio (Whether you're left or right, you can call and broadcast your views to the whole world -- or at least that part of it stuck in their cars during rush hour.)
<LI>The general apathy of "sheep." (Huh? You read it right; as long as they're apathetic, they aren't in our way. It's only when they are awake and bleating that they make the politicians scramble to remove more rights from the rest of us.)</UL>

All of that to say, war might be coming but it isn't coming fast. Rome took hundreds of years to fall completely and so will America, as long as the good people don't become as apathetic as the sheep.

pax


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"Is there anything wrong with a woman preferring the dignity of an armed citizen? I don't like to be coddled and I don't like to be treated like a minor child. So I waive immunity and claim my right -- I go armed." -- Longcourt Phyllis in Beyond This Horizon by Robert Heinlein
 
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