zincwarrior
New member
I never ever ever give advice unless its a safety factor, or am directly asked for help. Its just plain rude.
Amazed at the ignorance
- Thread starter sliponby
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Theohazard
New member
Marines are often some of the worst propegators of firearm myths and misinformation. There are two main contributors to this: First, myths run rampant in the Marine Corps, and that includes a large number of gun myths. Second, most Marines don't really know that much about firearms beyond how to operate and clean their service rifle and whatever other firearms are related to their MOS.sliponby said:
But among their civilian friends a Marine is often seen as a "gun expert", and compared to many of their friends, they are. But this is just another classic example of the Dunning-Kruger effect that JohnKSa linked to in his post.
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I've heard everyone from Mel Gibson to Sylvester Stallone used as examples of the proper way to handle a weapon. To the question "Why can't you do it like <insert actor's name here>?, I usually answer: "You can, but you probably will shoot everything except what you're trying to hit; including yourself."
I think this actually sounds worse than what the OP mentioned. If a salesperson is saying something questionable, it should be addressed. Pushing the sale (which may contain skewed information) above all else would very quickly make me go to a different gun shop. If two workers have differing views, I'm okay with them voicing them. I have a brain and can sort out for myself which information seems more valid.
FireForged
New member
Well lets examine his statement a little. First, there isnt any reason why a person who is staring off with a 9mm cant start of with a 40cal, its not a dramatic difference. The difference certainly does not shock the conscience or anything and I dont think it would detract from the fundamentals to any degree worth crying about.
His second statement about a gun shot wound in the groin area.. groin would be the pelvis. I would consider that kind of injury to the pelvis to be devastating.
I dont really like how he phrased his opinion and its not what I would tell someone but I dont think I would call it ignorant.
His second statement about a gun shot wound in the groin area.. groin would be the pelvis. I would consider that kind of injury to the pelvis to be devastating.
I dont really like how he phrased his opinion and its not what I would tell someone but I dont think I would call it ignorant.
UncleLoodis
New member
It always drives me bonkers--someone hijacking the conversation. Yes, I hear it all the time. And as others have said, the less the hijacker knows, the more adamant his opinion is.
Personally, if they only wanted something for home defense, and had asked me, I may have suggested a shotgun. But I wouldn't have interrupted the conversation to say so! Very rude.
Deep breaths....in through the nose, out through the mouth.
Personally, if they only wanted something for home defense, and had asked me, I may have suggested a shotgun. But I wouldn't have interrupted the conversation to say so! Very rude.
Deep breaths....in through the nose, out through the mouth.
Shout out to pax
I have your website, www.corneredcat.com on the "Links" page of my website. Further, I suggest to all my female (and male) students to check out your website prior to taking my class. More than once I've heard "she had me at the home page". Thanks for being such a valuable resource
I have your website, www.corneredcat.com on the "Links" page of my website. Further, I suggest to all my female (and male) students to check out your website prior to taking my class. More than once I've heard "she had me at the home page". Thanks for being such a valuable resource
No amount of ignorance surprises me any more. I saw someone at a local store with a fresh LTC asking about a "Desert Eagle" as his FIRST EVER firearm.
I don't want to get pulled into a caliber debate, but I will say that a 9mm is a great choice to have around the house. The round is cheap, easy to find, and there is sure to be more of that than any other pistol round lying around in a SHTF scenario.
I tell people what I believe myself; shoot the largest caliber I can fire comfortably and accurately. Considering we also have several other 9mm pieces in the household something like an M&P Shield in 9mm for my CCW made a lot of sense.
I don't want to get pulled into a caliber debate, but I will say that a 9mm is a great choice to have around the house. The round is cheap, easy to find, and there is sure to be more of that than any other pistol round lying around in a SHTF scenario.
I tell people what I believe myself; shoot the largest caliber I can fire comfortably and accurately. Considering we also have several other 9mm pieces in the household something like an M&P Shield in 9mm for my CCW made a lot of sense.
Let's go back to the basics:
An auto pistol in such a situation where neither buyer has any significant background (and the person for whom the gun is being bought has none) is both ripe for the 1-shot-and-I'm-done outcome, and the wife never-ever feeling comfortable enough with the machine in her hands to operate in time of stress.
The 357/double action revolver I recommended in the initial posts was for very good reason and long experience with new shooters -- especially girls/women.
With readily-available commercial ammunition it can be a training pipsqueak all the way up to kill-anything-that-walks east of the Mississippi. And its action is easily understood, and easy to get comfortable as being "owned" by the new/shy. shooter. [Note that actually killing some one is not a topic at all -- nor should it be]
I wouldn't have any problem telling any of this to the husband, the wife, the clerk, or anyone else at that point.
And while polite, I wouldn't be shy about it.
In a situation like that I'm afraid I would politely enter the conversations, and I would make a considered suggestion to everyone involved.
An auto pistol in such a situation where neither buyer has any significant background (and the person for whom the gun is being bought has none) is both ripe for the 1-shot-and-I'm-done outcome, and the wife never-ever feeling comfortable enough with the machine in her hands to operate in time of stress.
The 357/double action revolver I recommended in the initial posts was for very good reason and long experience with new shooters -- especially girls/women.
With readily-available commercial ammunition it can be a training pipsqueak all the way up to kill-anything-that-walks east of the Mississippi. And its action is easily understood, and easy to get comfortable as being "owned" by the new/shy. shooter. [Note that actually killing some one is not a topic at all -- nor should it be]
I wouldn't have any problem telling any of this to the husband, the wife, the clerk, or anyone else at that point.
And while polite, I wouldn't be shy about it.
g.willikers
New member
With fast shooting, some muzzle rise from recoil is going to happen, for most folks anyway.
Might as well use it.
It's still controlled shooting, with mere inches between points of impact.
Not like what some folks do, going from dirt to ceiling.
See, now you're passing judgement without actually having tried it, aren't you?
Remember, if you delve to try, it's an instictive-point shooting technique.
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Remember, we're talking a beginner, new shooter here. My experience is it's all I can do to get some to master the basics such as proper grip, sight alignment/picture, etc., much less moving to fast shooting and NOT using the sights.
Point shooting, which I'm fully aware of, is too advanced for a newbie. You've got to take it slow and, by all means, get them to use their sights.
Point shooting, which I'm fully aware of, is too advanced for a newbie. You've got to take it slow and, by all means, get them to use their sights.
g.willikers
New member
Fur sure.
It's an advanced technique, but not without merit.
So-called advanced techniques really aren't all that hard to master.
For someone willing to put in the time and effort, it doesn't take all that long to improve enough to be able to do most of them.
But like you say, it's not something that should be rushed.
For example, a young guy showed up at a local, well attended action type pistol match, with a very nice rig that one of the members had sold him.
He admittedly didn't have a clue about anything.
With just the advice and assistance of the other competitors, it took less than six months for him to become a solid mid field shooter.
By the end of the year, he was a reliable top fifteen (out of a general 60-80 competitors).
And he had a very demanding job and plenty of other hobbies.
So he didn't devote all his time and energy to it, either.
Just a thought.
It's an advanced technique, but not without merit.
So-called advanced techniques really aren't all that hard to master.
For someone willing to put in the time and effort, it doesn't take all that long to improve enough to be able to do most of them.
But like you say, it's not something that should be rushed.
For example, a young guy showed up at a local, well attended action type pistol match, with a very nice rig that one of the members had sold him.
He admittedly didn't have a clue about anything.
With just the advice and assistance of the other competitors, it took less than six months for him to become a solid mid field shooter.
By the end of the year, he was a reliable top fifteen (out of a general 60-80 competitors).
And he had a very demanding job and plenty of other hobbies.
So he didn't devote all his time and energy to it, either.
Just a thought.
Blacktimberwolf
Moderator
The good guns, of course.
And a few from Austria.Glenn E. Meyer
New member
This makes me laugh. I'm reading a book "Cheesemonger" by an expert running a store in San Francisco and he complains about the same exact expert effect he finds in some customers and some company reps.
Me - is that a Glock 22, user incensed! NO, it a Forty!!
Me - is that a Glock 22, user incensed! NO, it a Forty!!
How old were the couple? I let a 50 something lady try and work the slide on my G19. She wanted a SA because it "had more bullets". She couldn't cycle the slide. As to those who are just get a shotgun for home defense.. maybe.. it's just easier to move the handgun from room to room. Even a cheap holster and the gun can be worn around the house.. If you wanted to...
I worked with a 60 something man who didn't know anything about guns.. He bought a Taurus .357 during the ammo shortage. He got the gun at a big box store but no ammo. They didn't have any .357.. I asked if they were out of .38spl too, but he gave me a look and told me he didn't buy a .38 he bought a .357. I told him he could shoot .38 in the .357 and he really gave me a strange look. The store didn't help him just made a sale. I remember he told me he was having trouble reaching the safety just behind the cylinder, I told him that was the release and that revolver didn't have a safety. Another one of those looks. He sure thought I was ignorant
I worked with a 60 something man who didn't know anything about guns.. He bought a Taurus .357 during the ammo shortage. He got the gun at a big box store but no ammo. They didn't have any .357.. I asked if they were out of .38spl too, but he gave me a look and told me he didn't buy a .38 he bought a .357. I told him he could shoot .38 in the .357 and he really gave me a strange look. The store didn't help him just made a sale. I remember he told me he was having trouble reaching the safety just behind the cylinder, I told him that was the release and that revolver didn't have a safety. Another one of those looks. He sure thought I was ignorant
First, the advice to shooting for the pelvis girdle is legitimate advice. Not only are there major arteries in the pelvis, the breaking of bone there can be devastating. This is a prefered shot to defeat body armor in CQB and much easier than a head shot.
The advice I take issue with is guiding a new shooter who is just looking for a home defense gun, to an auto loader.....caliber irrelevant. Unless one is willing to practice, practice, practice with an auto loader, it is not the best choice for a SD FA, let alone for a new/non shooter. Far too many issues with limp wrist, safety disengagement, chambering, jam clearing, mag springs storage, etc.
When I get this question about the "best gun", for those who just want a gun to have at home, my recommendation is is always a medium 3"-4" frame revolver in .357 or .38. Hardly ever a need for .357 ammo but the slightly heavier barrel, good sights and light recoil makes shooting .38s fun if they practice. Most importantly, you can put it in the drawer for years and know for absolute certainty whenever you pick it up it will go bang.....6X!
The advice I take issue with is guiding a new shooter who is just looking for a home defense gun, to an auto loader.....caliber irrelevant. Unless one is willing to practice, practice, practice with an auto loader, it is not the best choice for a SD FA, let alone for a new/non shooter. Far too many issues with limp wrist, safety disengagement, chambering, jam clearing, mag springs storage, etc.
When I get this question about the "best gun", for those who just want a gun to have at home, my recommendation is is always a medium 3"-4" frame revolver in .357 or .38. Hardly ever a need for .357 ammo but the slightly heavier barrel, good sights and light recoil makes shooting .38s fun if they practice. Most importantly, you can put it in the drawer for years and know for absolute certainty whenever you pick it up it will go bang.....6X!
Theohazard
New member
Yes, but you're referring to an advanced failure drill technique. The shooters in question here are beginners. And for beginners -- and even most non-beginners -- It's best to train to aim for high center-mass.colbad said:
I think you're overstating some of the issues with semi-autos:colbad said:
- Limp-wristing isn't much if an issue with many semi-autos. And for those guns that are more prone to limp-wristing, a few minutes of training on how to properly hold a handgun almost always fixes the problem.
- Safety disengagement isn't an issue on the many semi-auto pistols that don't have a safety.
- Chambering a round is easy if done right. Most instructors will tell you that they've never encountered an able-bodied person who couldn't be taught to rack a slide. The problem is that most men don't do it properly because we don't need to, and then when we teach women how to do it, we're actually teaching them wrong so they have trouble.
- Mag spring storage is a non-issue. Any properly-designed mag can be left fully loaded for decades with no noticable spring wear. Constant loading and unloading of a mag is what wears out a spring, not keeping it loaded.
That leaves the stoppage issue. I do agree that clearing a stoppage reliably takes a decent amount of training. Luckily, most modern semi-auto pistols are very reliable to begin with.
Here's the thing: I agree that a revolver is a better choice for someone who isn't willing to practice very much with their gun. But in many cases a semi-auto will be a better choice if the user is willing to practice with it; a semi-auto usually has less felt recoil and a shorter and lighter trigger pull, which are two things that can help a new shooter quite a bit.