Am I the only one baffled by deliberately unarmed people?

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If threatened, I'd rather run and/or hide.

Pity that isn't an option if I am out with girlfriend or parents and they can't escape with me. Responsibility for my own behavior AND elective, voluntarily assumed responsibility for welfare of others are my reasons for owning arms. I hope that I will not have to use them in anger, but should it come to combat, better live friendlies and dead initiators of hostilities than dead/injured friendlies and a life-long guilt of having known better yet failing in basic responsibilities.

On Heinlein's quote: "Ask the city fathers of Carthage." "But they don't exist anymore." "Exactly my point."

Violence accomplishes results...be they a dead rapist and an unhurt friendly or what NASDAP had accomplished. By foreswearing use of force we yield the sole ownership of that method to known evil.

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Oleg

http://dd-b.net/RKBA
 
I feel that in situations like these, if we have the ability to help an innocent escape a violent attack, we should help. Ignorance is no reason for them to have to face the emotional strain that goes with the physical attack. And on the plus side, it just might make them change their minds on how usefull a gun is. Just my opinion.

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I would rather die on my feet, than live on my knees.
 
DUPs have baffled me for some time. They concern me because HCI and other gun prohibition groups draw support from them. Ignorance and a lack of critical thought are part of the problem, but I'm beginning to see that exposure to "shooting" as a big contributor in the modern world. My son began shooting 22LR at age 6 under my supervision. He is now a junior in high school and involved in the ongoing responsibility of gun ownership. We live in a major city, and he is a distinct minority among his classmates. Most don't have access to a place to shoot, and most parents don't teach their sons or daughters anything about guns or the RKBA or its meaning for civil society. The media and movies provide the basis for whatever impressions many of his classmates have. It is fertile ground for the erroneous mentality: remove guns = end of violence. I also think that this is one reason why the gun control issue in the polls divides geographically with urban areas leaning for gun control and rural areas against it. My problem is I don't see any serious effort to reach this group on behalf of the RKBA, and its future implications are a worry.
 
I dont get those guys either - and I dont want to. I dont want to have to empty my head to share such a vacuous mentality as found in these domestic herd animals. I can't think like a sheep.
They are prey... They are food. While I may feel the impulse to protect them - I aint going to have much sympathy for them.

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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
We, the people, are tired of being taxed, penalized, supervised, harassed,
and subjugated by a federal government which exceeds the powers
enumerated in the U.S. Constitution.
 
I believe that most of these DUP's are just in a permanent condition white.
They are largely oblivious to what is going on around them. Perhaps it's some sort of defensive mechanism the mind goes into when it is overwhelmed by too much sensory input.
Anybody who has ever lived in a big city knows exactly what I'm talking about. People just go from point A to point B as efficiently as they can and subsequently ignore whatever is going on around them in doing so. If you were to ask the average urban commuter to give you a detailed account of their trip to or from work, you would probably not get a very thorough report.
Possible danger is just another factor that gets filtered out in the process. Preparing a response to a potential threat is just something that is likely to overload their operating system.
 
Protecting the innocent is a good time and I usually espouse that position.

But you take risk to yourself.

Do you have responsibility to make an
armed intervention for someone who
has argued against you having the right
to defend yourself? Are they "innocent"?

This is a philosophical issue and separate from all the wonderful pragmatic debates
about intervention.
 
Glenn E. Meyer, I got a kick out of scenario #2 on going out to a business lunch. Similar to the "You don't have to outrun the bear, just your buddy" routine.

The only thing I have heartburn with is my co-workers knowing I am armed. In some dicey situation where surprise would be your ally, some dimwit would shriek "Glenn, use your gun!" and have the baleful eye of the Bad Guy look your way.

One of the "arty" TV channels had a story about that Estonian ferry sinking some years back. A similar discussion arose, not so much as to Condition White, but your reaction WTSHTF. This one Brit mentioned that as the deck tilted and it was obvious the ship was capsizing, people just sat frozen at the tables, unable to help themselves.

So we have a compound problem of not being aware of danger and then not having the reflexes or will to survive. Any of us can be blindsided at times, but I think that if you've solved the first problem of defending yourself, you are in a better position to act on the second.

Paranoia is good, no matter what your family says.


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The New World Order has a Third Reich odor.
 
I have given altogether more thought to the
plight of the dupes and this thread than I ever intended to. I kinda got caught up in it.
Now that I am ,I realize it is a good thing.

The future of firearms in the USA
depends on OUR converting large quantities of
dupes into shooters, weather we like it or not. There is no one else but US to do this,
and it must be done or else we will be DONE FOR.

With this in mind then, We must invite
our favorite DUPE out to the range to shoot with us at our expense ,each and every time that we go to shoot. Invite a different dupe
every time to get the maximum number of dupes
converted to the light side of the force as possible(as Luke Skywalker would say).

Every time we do this ,we are being the
Jedi Knights of the Firearms community,
recruiting new allies for the rebel alliance
against tynary.

We ,each & every one of us, can be real life hero's, if only to the firearms community.

A little forethought on your part is essential if you assume this responsibility.
Review your NRA Pistol Safety Course
as you will be teaching this to the dupes
that you invite to shoot.
Invite them to your home for 3 hours of safety training and concentrate only on the
safety rules, range proceedure and safe &
proper firearms handleing. Leave marksmanship for last.Plan on coffee & donuts to break up
the teaching.
What do you get out of this and why is it worth it.
1. Possibly a good friend for life. What
could this be worth to you. Life is sure easier and more pleasent with true friends.
2. At the very least,some one to gaurd
your expensive firearms while you go downrange to change targets or someone to change your targets for you while you gaurd the firearms.


What you will need to do this cost efficiently. For pistol shooters, I would recommend a 22lr double action revolver,
preferably with a 6 inch barrel & adj. sites,
similar to a Taurus model 94 and a 22lr
semi auto pistol, something easier for a beginer than a ruger mark2, which from a safety standpoint is one of the hardest 22
pistols to be safe with. The ruger always requires extra fore though in order to handle it safely.

A lamma 22lr pistol, bieng more like a 1911--45acp-- with a lock back slide, external hammer and push button mag release,
is much better suited to a first time shooting experience for a beginer, from a safety standpoint and ease of use.
Not as accurate, but safer & easier to use.

You dont have to go out & buy new guns
to do this-- you can make do with what you
own already. But , some of us are just looking for an excuse to need to buy more guns. This serves nicely. 150 guns & climbing over 15 years collecting.
The latest comment on my collection
was "Larry, you got a lot of Really Good
sh~t here."
I take my compliments as I can get em!
The 22lr is necessary to keep your
cost down.
I am going to run free adds in my local newspaper, inviting anyone who wants to shoot
---- for free safety lessons and a free hour
of shooting at my expense. I dont have to pay
range fees as I am a yearly member of a club,
allowed to bring guest shooters.So all it costs me is my time and 3.oo worth of 22lr,
plus what ever I spend on those guns I just mentioned above, but Im not counting that!

The only down side of this that I can see, is hundereds of new friends, calling
me every week end, asking to go shooting.

Being popular can be a b~tch!
So peole have got it rough! hehehe.

Once you get em hooked on shooting,
bring em to visit your favorite gun shop,
You were planning on going there anyways,
just to look at all the new toys--dont lie--
I know better! An maybe buy another box or 6 of ammo. And introduce your ex-dupe to the local NRA Certified Pistol Safety Instructor
to take their State Pistol Permit Course.
Help them select their first gun and get them to help you breaking in more new dupes.

Also- get your other shooting friends at
you range to take a dupe every time they go
shooting.

Dupes-"YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE THE POWER OF THE LIGHT SIDE OF THE FORCE UNTIL YOU EXPERIENCE IT FIRST HAND." COME OUT OF THE
DARK-NEST OF GOVT LIES AND INTO THE LIGHT OF TRUTH!

As some one else posted in this thread--
Its better to be a sheep dog or the shepard
than one of the sheeple.

BE A SHEPARD AND LETS RE-EDUCATE THE FLOCK,
ONE SHEEPLE TURNED SHOOTER AT A TIME.
 
Yeah, makes you wonder. I respect people's decisions not to own guns as long as they respect my decision to own and carry.

Case in point. My next door neighbor has a pool in her back yard that she's good about sharing (I watch/maintain when she's out of town in the summer). Neighbors on the other side (thirty-something yup couple with yr old child) came over one afternoon while I was sitting by pool reading tech journal(owner out of town), as wife and child played in pool, I chatted with husband. I opened my shoulder bag (carries my sunglasses, cellphone, palm pilot, cigar paraphenalia, CRKT mirage, and handgun du jour - SIG 232 that day) to get a 'gar and he notices butt of SIG, askes 'what's that for?' (curious, not upset). I explain that I usually carry where permitted, to which he asked why I felt that was necessary, 'afterall, this is a safe neighborhood . . . ' I pointed out that in the last year, less than one mile from where we sat, there had been two murders, a rape and two attempted rapes, a drive by shooting at the local high school, and there were three registered sex offenders in the 'hood.

Yeah, he was aware of most of those incidents, but was of the opinion that it wouldn't happen to him or his. Geez, I said that one of the murders was in the apt. complex behind the grocery store we both frequent, one of the attempted rapes was in the store's parking lot, the other was in the metro (subway station) lot that is walking distance form here. He still didn't think he needed to be vigilant (cops will protect me), but did allow as how it was good to know that I was in the neighborhood. I guess that was a compliment, and I would help any of my neighbors if I could, I still found his attitude naive at best.

I explained, to no avail, that the cops will try, but no guarantees (or recourse), still didn't bother him. Oh, well. More living proof of 'you can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her (him) think. M2
 
DUP alert:

I was thinking about this thread reading the paper today. There was an article about
Y2k stuff. and they interviewed a couple
who were retired and lived in a nice neighborhood. They bought $8000 worth of
stuff - grub, generators, water, medicine, etc.

They said:

Even if burgulars show up, we're not worried.
We got enough food fo rthem. They won't need to rob us. We'll just share it with them.

The paper went on to make fun of kooks with
Ak-47s and called the couple "Sensible survivalists".

There was no mention of any self-defense plan.

Now I think that Y2K will be just fine but
those idiots are DUPs. Now the whole town
knows where to stock up.
 
They said:

Even if burglars show up, we're not worried.
We got enough food for them. They won't need to rob us. We'll just share it with them.

The paper went on to make fun of kooks with Ak-47s and called the couple "Sensible survivalists".

********************************************

After breeding and raising show dogs, and having observed their pack behavior, I am amused this "Omega" pair expects to be treated well by "Alpha" burglars who come to "share" their food.

If the woman is pretty, she might live a little longer. But since the article says they are retired, I doubt it.
 
Even my younger brother- who "spiffied up" his SKS, and thinks the Colt Anaconda is unbearably cool- says things like <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Why do you have to carry a gun to the store?[/quote]

I say things like <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Why have a fire extinguisher? Why have insurance? Because it @#$%ing makes sense, that's why![/quote]
 
Coupla things relevant here....

First, a few years after I started working at the Md House of Correction, Wife's youngest sister came down on a bus to see us. When it was time for her to return to NJ, she had to get to the bus station in B-more, so wife and I took her. As we waited in the bus station, I looked around and saw a wacko I knew. Said to Wife,"see that big guy in the Army jacket talking to the security guard? That's Osbie Wiley, and the last time I saw him. he was eating razor blades and screaming he wanted to die."...

Wife was terrified. She said some thing like,"Oh,God, what if he comes over here and attacks us?". My reply was to the effect that I'd take him out with one or more 38 caliber stoppers. She said,"I didn't know you had a gun with you".

My reply,"That's why they're called concealed weapons".

Wife has never been fond of guns, but she gives no trouble about me packing. She won't though...

Second story....

A woman that I had worked with prior to the prison and knew socially came to me and advised me she had been raped. She wanted to learn how to defend herself. After thinking about and talking to a psychologist with good sense that knew both of us, I consented. I did change the things I usually did with rookies, using a snub 38 instead of a target 22 for the basics.

First, she got to shoot up close at a silohuette target,working through some rage. Aftet that,she learend fast, a few lessons left her at least as qualified as a rookie at the prison,and better than some. She purchased a J-Frame and thanked me nicely.

But it was just starting, she belonged to a rape victims support group and shared her experiences with the group. Over the next coupla years 5 more female victims found me and asked for lessons. All learned to shoot, after I spent some serious time studying them and deciding if they were tightly wrapped.

After teaching,I made them promise to keep me updated as to any trouble they had. One had to display a weapon to a date that forgot what NO meant, another heard glass breaking in her kitchen, moved to her bedroom and armed herself,announced she was armed and calling 911 as footsteps approached her locked bedroom door. Footsteps left. No further problem.

All 6 of these poor women were of the opinion that if they had been armed prior to the rapes, there would have been no rape,and the world would be a better place.

Pity they had to learn the hard way....
 
What cracks me up are all those people who think that we will get killed during the two seconds needed to draw...but they won't get harmed while on thte phone with 911 for minutes on hold...

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Oleg

http://dd-b.net/RKBA
 
My sister falls into the DUP category. She's been an ER trauma nurse for 25+ years in Miami so she knows what bad things can happen.

She has recently had a very bad experience with a stalker type. Was asking her about her use of a firearm to protect herself (there is a .380 Colt in the house). She says she could never shoot someone - she saves lives, doesn't take 'em.

Mentioned to her that she would be saving her own life. Didn't register - couldn't shoot someone. Told her to use the phone.

May end up losing her out of this situation.
& not a damned thing anyone can do about it.

I just don't get it.
 
We must realize that these DUPs, these...Average people...They are the slug-minded peasants that the ruling class so desperately wants us all to be. This what the culture war is all about. The RPC wants to eliminate our "Gun Culture", wich is nothing more than free thought, individuality, and self-reliance. People like those found at TFL, do not need Socialism and know enough about it to denounce it. Worse yet, we tend to tell others about it. And of couce, we have the means, now curtailed, to resist.
DUPs are a resource, we are a problem.
 
cdf - "DUPs are a resource, we are a problem." Beautiful! Another one for the "Oatka Files".

A long, semi-DUP one. My brother is an insurance adjuster and had to check out a stolen van. It was at the sheriff's impound lot in a small South Carolina town.

The sheriff tells him to wait in the office
"for a few minutes". My brother leaves his wife in the car, enters the office, and is sitting by the water cooler when they bring in, AND LEAVE UNATTENDED, 7 or 8 guys of varying ages and colors, all wearing handcuffs and chains. My brother's hair goes Afro but he doesn't move. It seems that all these prisoners are extremely thirsty and keep visiting the cooler, eyeing him all the while. One guy says, "Nice laptop, man". My brother says nothing.

Well, glad to say nothing happened. The sheriff comes in, takes them away and turns them over to the troopers. Says to my brother, "Those boys think they're tough, but they are going to the toughest penitentiary in the state. Tonight, some of those boys are going to be brides".

My brother does his work and leaves shaking.
He told me, "All I could see was a hostage situation in the making."

He gets back to the car and his wife has saucer-eyes and is also in Afro-mode. "Why in Hell did you leave me here. I'm right across from the compound and those guys are pressed against the fence eyeballing me!" He caught Hell all the way home.

I asked him that since he was out in the rural areas a lot and always had his wife with him, both of them should be armed. He just looked at me while I ranted.

Well, something must have sunk in as he now has a Mossberg for the house and is talking CCW. Hopefully he'll follow through.

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The New World Order has a Third Reich odor.
 
Ding dongs everywhere. When we lived in Arizona, the wife worked at the hospital and we spent a lot of time in the forests and upland deserts hikng. A bit worried about some of the prople we ran into on occassion, we purchased a .38 that was easier/lighter to carry than our .357 6" barrel. One of the nurses that the wife worked with asked: "You bought another gun? You mean you would really shoot a human being if he threatened you?"

Later that year, just before xmas, the paper had a story about a convenience store clerk shot and killed during his night shift. He had taken the part time job to save up a bit of money for buying his kids some presents. After listening to my wife and some others talking about the poor guy, the same nurse mentioned about told my wife and others: "Serves him right for working at a place like that."
 
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