am i an idiot? experts say 'Yes!', what do YOU think?

S

spacemanspiff

New member
alright, heres your chance to smack me upside the head.

so i go to the bank to deposit the checks from agents to my office. and just for funsies i decided to open carry. so i'm standing in line when a lady approaches me and asks me to leave because 'weapons are not allowed'. i asked her if it was the policy of this particular bank, and she would not (could not?) say if it was law (which i know it isnt) or policy. but i was polite (as was she) and complied with her wishes.

i came back to the office (right across the parking lot), disarmed, did a quick check of the state laws to make sure i wasn't wrong, and went back to deposit the checks.

and i've just spent about the last hour studying the various laws and discovered that the prohibition of weapons (open or concealed) in financial institutions was repealed in 1998.

now heres where i need the help of everyone (please stop smacking me upside the head now, thank you! ) ; should i let it go at this? only carry concealed while in there? or should i deliver the following letter to the branch manager:
RE: Possession of weapons in a financial institution

On the afternoon of Thursday June 16, 2005, I was asked to leave the Wells Fargo branch on the corner of Minnesota and Benson Blvd’s by what I assume was a Security Manager, because I was lawfully carrying a holstered weapon on my hip, commonly referred to as 'open carry.'

The person I spoke with was very polite, and asked that I exit and leave my weapon in my vehicle. I asked a couple of questions, trying to ascertain if this was because of some unwritten policy, or perhaps a misinterpretation of law. Unfortunately no satisfactory answer was given.

I did comply however, and disarmed while doing my business in the bank. To make sure I wasn’t breaking the law I did research the matter, and did discover that at one time, possession of a weapon (concealed or open) was unlawful while in a financial institution. This section of the law was repealed in 1998. There is no doubt in my mind that you will have this researched on your own to verify this.

I mentioned to the lady from security that if it is indeed mere policy of this particular bank, then the entrance to the bank does need to be posted with a sign stating such. There is a state statute that advises the sign be 12”x12” and be placed in conspicuous places so that all who enter can see it.

Considering that Alaska has very common sense laws regarding firearms, and that open carry is indeed lawful anywhere that concealed carry is lawful, it would surprise me if the Wells Fargo financial institution does post a sign prohibiting weapons.

And the reason it would surprise me is that anyone with an ounce of common sense would realize that only those who are mindful of obeying the law would ever abide by this. Criminals know that much as well. A law-abiding person such as myself would follow the direction to be unarmed while in your institution, but a criminal will not.

I implore you to ask yourself “What do I know about those who lawfully carry concealed (or openly for that matter) a weapon?”
- Are you aware that permit-holders have submitted fingerprints to the State and undergone both state and federal background checks to ensure they have no criminal record?
- Are you aware that permit-holders have passed firearms training and know proper weapons handling?
- Are you aware that permit-holders have enjoyed the privilege of Alaska’s laws regarding concealed carry and the justifiable use of deadly force fully explained by either a representative from the District Attorney’s office or the Anchorage Police Department?

I do understand that a financial institution does have legitimate concerns to protect its interests from criminals, and this is where the apprehension of customers that are armed comes from. However the safety of the individual customer is compromised if they are expected to conduct their business without having the best means available to defend themselves at hand. Would Wells Fargo’s liability insurance cover a customer that gets mugged while leaving the bank and their weapon is not on them, but secured in their vehicle? Can Wells Fargo ensure my safety while I am disarmed and conducting business on their premises?

Please feel free to write me a letter if you wish to express the concerns of your financial institution regarding this matter.
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I think you may be opening a can of worms you don't want to eat... Nevertheless, if you must send the letter, I’d drop everything after the words:.

spacemanspliff said:
"I implore you to ask yourself..."
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This is where it starts to feel more like a sermon, than a letter detailing your experience, and expressing your concerns regarding the experience.

Prior to the above quote, your explaining the incident, detailing the particulars, and informing the institution what it may want to do (i.e. post a sign if they have a company policy which says no firearms on premises) - all of which are educational, compelling, and precise.

All in all, nice letter. Now put your damn IWB on next time! ;)
 
It obviously makes them uncomfortable:

Just be a man, and carry it concealed.

Sure you may have the RIGHT to display it out in the open, but I would argue that you should just be the decent person in this and dont display it openly. Having it concealed will not effect your ability or speed to defend yourself in a bad situation.

What good is going to come from this letter? Carry concealed when in the bank, it makes the public happier and does not waste you or the bank's time. This letter seems to be like a "I have this right and am going to shove it in your face just because I can."

If this isn't how it really is, please enlighten me. But I feel that most readers here will agree that you should just carry concealed. The only purpose in carrying open inside the bank would be to either flaunt or annoy. And I agree that the latter part of your letter sounds much like a sermon. That will not get you anywhere.

Tuck your shirt over it, whatever. It will take 3 seconds of your time, much less then it took you to write that letter.
 
Carry concealed in the future. No sense in letting the sheep get worked up.
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:rolleyes:

You guys are really getting bad at generalizing the general population as gun fearing liberals. Generally, its that ONE guy that hates guns and calls the cops to be malicious.

Most folks honestly couldn't care less one way or the other.
 
Its not that they dont care. Its that most of them are too afraid of guns and gun wielders to want to even get involved. And I dont blame them, the logic makes sence:

You see a guy with a gun. This scares you. Just act cool and as if it is no big deal and dont draw attention to the fact that you notice it. Go home and forget all about it the next day.

The one guy that makes a deal out of it or calls the cops is either so afraid that they feel they MUST act, an ******* who hates you or guns in general, or an employee or another person who is obligated to confront you for the company or if it is having an effect on buisness.

It is ignorant to say that the majority of people are OK with guns, as this is the opposite. Many people on this site would be able to attest to this, especially if you don't live in the boonies (None of you?).

And it is always better to assume that the public is not going to be okay with the presense of a firearm. Telling yourself otherwise may result in a bad situation if someone reacts in the wrong way. For safety's sake I would err on the side of caution.
 
I like it, Spiff. The only problem I see is that you have told them how to make sure it doesn't happen again, i.e. the sign. On the other hand, it shows that you have a balanced opinion on the matter. I say send it as is.
 
It is ignorant to say that the majority of people are OK with guns, as this is the opposite. Many people on this site would be able to attest to this, especially if you don't live in the boonies (None of you?).
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Camas must be a hick town then.. same with Washougal. :rolleyes:

Most will think it maybe odd, others will make an off handed remark and be done with it.

On another note, I do plan to get my permit at 21, as well as whenever I see fit openly carry, as this state allows it.

Folks, if you can stand on the street corner with a sign, you can carry gun. Same protection, written in the constitution. You do not need to hide it(unless your in a kommi state and risk personal retrobution by some prosecutor).
 
well i kinda felt that they have a right to know that if they wish to stop people from carrying, there is a provision in the state law that they could enact. true, posting signs won't stop 99.99% of those who carry, but it does give them the option to call the police and boot the offender out, and CT them if they do it again.

i'm not a fan of that option, but its their only lawful way of keeping me from openly carrying there.

what i did leave out was the suggestion that they have metal detectors in use. and i have seen uniformed security personnel in the lobby from time to time. unarmed of course. and if you think i'm a fat tubby 'tard, their guards make me look like calista flockhart! (wait, who the heck is calista flockhart??? curse you FOX programming!!!!!)

there is another aspect here though, this is not my personal bank, its the bank my employer uses and i have to deposit the checks. so any flak i give the bank could wind up biting me in the rear should they decide to contact my boss.

the bank i do my personal business with, would not be able to prohibit me from being armed, since their branch is right in the grocery store. they have no security and their tellers have absolutely no situational awareness.
 
their tellers have absolutely no situational awareness.
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Otherwise known around here as having smoked a blunt before coming on the job :p

Spiffy, you did the responsible thing to do by honoring your employers reputation and not marring it.
 
Two quick things . When I was in AK anyone without a gun when leaving town was considered somewhat crazy . Guns were VERY common .Also we have a place in Kingman az . I noticed on the door of one of the banks we deal with a sign indicating NO FIREARMS . I guess all it takes is a sign .Makes sense to me .
 
Interesting that the letter to the bank received proper capitalization, while we here, evidently, are not worth the trouble.

Tim
 
You don't have a right to do jack on someone else's property. If you must open carry at your financial institution well good luck shopping around for one. Otherwise carry concealed and quit being such an attention whore.
 
You're intent is ok. It'd be nice to be able to carry openly etc., but not the best execution for obvious reasons.

Ok, you've tested the waters, now take the hint and conceal it again. Tear up the letter and don't make waves even if you're right par se'.

You know what they say...Make waves, get gored.
 
Interesting that the letter to the bank received proper capitalization, while we here, evidently, are not worth the trouble.
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well you can thank microsoft word for all the fancy punctuation and grammar of that letter. :D

You don't have a right to do jack on someone else's property. If you must open carry at your financial institution well good luck shopping around for one. Otherwise carry concealed and quit being such an attention whore.
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well if i was demanding a 'right' i wouldnt have been telling them how to make carrying into their place of business verboten, now would i?



after thinking more about it, i've decided not to pursue the matter. if they do post the building i will send a letter to the editor about it, as well as a letter to the bank branch managers. as of right now, they dont know me from adam. i'm just the guy who drops off deposits. they've never seen my ID, dont know my name. though i did run into one of the cute tellers at the range last weekend.

this is not quite the same issue as my personal bank, for if they were to try to stop me from carrying while on their premises, i'd definitely raise holy hell about it. my employer on the other hand, can not afford to indulge my interests in this matter.
i appreciate everyones input.
 
Send away, spiffy! If it is legal, and they don't have the proper signs required by law, the ball is in their court to do something.
 
i would say just carry under your shirt or something. We carry firearms for safety and if I am correct would rather avoid confrontation rather than invite confrontation by doing something that you knew would most likely become an issue. Sending the sermon note will just make them look down at you and others who agree with you, and find ways to thwart our rights for what they believe is right (incorrectly. Desite the fact that i agree with you and the notes contents.

i understant the want to tell them whats legal and what our rights are. But in the end they don't care and will do whatever they can to get their way. They do things like this for the same reason we want to inform them of the way things are. They think they are right. As do we. We just have the law on our side to back us.
 
Exposing your gun?? YOU FILTHY PERVERT!!!!

You broke no law by your open carry, but at the point that you were asked to leave, if you had refused you would have been guilty of "tresspassing."

I am still trying to understand how it is that any person, institution, company, employer, school, church or business is given the green light to violate our Constitutional rights as defined by Article Two of the Bill of Rights. Our RIGHT to keep and bear arms is a sacred RIGHT that is INVIOLATE. Why is it okay to violate that RIGHT at the drop of a hat and we have NO recourse???

Decline to rent an apartment to a person who is an obvious gang-banger and you have violated his "human rights" and are guilty of a FEDERAL CRIME. Violate my Second Amendment rights, and you are presented the key to the city and are treated like a hero.

The way the sheeple think these days, open carry seems to be akin to walking about town with your penis hanging out of your fly. I think I am going to move to Vermont or Alaska where exposed guns are not regarded with the same contempt as exposed penises.
 
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