I just bought an alloy frame CZ 75 PCR in 9mm. I had a guy at the range mention it's not good long term to shoot +P or +P+ ammo in alloy frame guns. Any thoughts? I generally shoot standard pressure Speer Gold Dot 124 and Speer Lawman 124 FMJ anyway but would like to know in case I ever decide to load a mag or two for concealed carry in +P. any input is appreciated.
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Alloy Frame Guns Ammo
- Thread starter longshank
- Start date
I just bought an alloy frame CZ 75 PCR in 9mm. I had a guy at the range mention it's not good long term to shoot +P or +P+ ammo in alloy frame guns. Any thoughts? I generally shoot standard pressure Speer Gold Dot 124 and Speer Lawman 124 FMJ anyway but would like to know in case I ever decide to load a mag or two for concealed carry in +P. any input is appreciated.
Beware guys at ranges. They say many things. I wouldn't put thousands and thousands of rounds of +p ammo through it, but it's not a glass cannon. A number of boxes to test function and then shooting off your old carry ammo every so often is fine. I see no point in +p+.
Evil Monkey
New member
I see no point in +p+
Why not? In my opinion, the 9mm should inherently be a +P+ cartridge, considering its case web and walls are stronger than 40sw or 45acp.
An alloy frame won't hold up as long as a steel frame or even plastic framed pistol regardless of whether you use standard or +p ammo.
+p ammo will wear out steel and plastic frame guns faster than standard pressure ammo.
Technically he is right, but it needs a little perspective. Military Beretta's are alloy framed and are expected to withstand 35,000 rounds of NATO spec ammo which is pretty much the same as +p.
You might wear it out sooner with a steady diet of hotter ammo, but probably not in your lifetime. A few mags for function and for personal defense use won't hurt a thing.
+p ammo will wear out steel and plastic frame guns faster than standard pressure ammo.
Technically he is right, but it needs a little perspective. Military Beretta's are alloy framed and are expected to withstand 35,000 rounds of NATO spec ammo which is pretty much the same as +p.
You might wear it out sooner with a steady diet of hotter ammo, but probably not in your lifetime. A few mags for function and for personal defense use won't hurt a thing.
Beware guys at ranges. They say many things. I wouldn't put thousands and thousands of rounds of +p ammo through it, but it's not a glass cannon. A number of boxes to test function and then shooting off your old carry ammo every so often is fine. I see no point in +p+.
Agree. I have a PCR. Nice gun. It can handle +P just fine. This type of warning would be more appropriate for polymer or composit than alloy, IMHO.
Since +P+ could mean anything, why would you? Any gun should not have a constant diet I of +P.
Why not? In my opinion, the 9mm should inherently be a +P+ cartridge, considering its case web and walls are stronger than 40sw or 45acp.
It's just my opinion. I don't see the need nor do I know of any maker whose warranty covers +p+ due to the lack of a SAAMI spec. These days I'm debating even carrying +P. In most ballistic testing I've seen it gives you only a slight amount more expansion, often less penetration than standard loadings, and more recoil and flash. I know you "lol" at recoil, but I'll take the reduced split times.
+P should be no problem except maybe in the very long term. +P+ needs some explanation. Originally that designation was given only to .38 Special ammunition loaded under a LEAA contract for LE use only, and not for sale on the commercial market.* But the term impressed some easily impressed folks and some ammo makers began to use the +P+ designation as marketing hype on other calibers. Because there was never intended to be commercial sale of the +P+ ammo, SAAMI never developed specs and there are no established pressure maximums; the result is that no firearms manufacturer will designate a gun as safe or suitable for ammunition designated +P+. All that can be said is that the ammo makers using the term +P+ presumably don't want to damage customers' guns (bad PR) and keep pressures to some level they don't think will do any harm. What that level is, they won't say.
*Some was reportedly loaded to near-.357 pressures, and some boxes were marked for use only in revolvers chambered for .357 Magnum.
Jim
*Some was reportedly loaded to near-.357 pressures, and some boxes were marked for use only in revolvers chambered for .357 Magnum.
Jim
Why not? In my opinion, the 9mm should inherently be a +P+ cartridge, considering its case web and walls are stronger than 40sw or 45acp.
I agree, in fact I will buy no 9mm pistol that cannot handle +P+, and that eliminates most! It was +P+ that originally brought the caliber up the ladder of performance, significantly narrowing the performance gap with the other two major service calibers!
I agree, in fact I will buy no 9mm pistol that cannot handle +P+, and that eliminates most! It was +P+ that originally brought the caliber up the ladder of performance, significantly narrowing the performance gap with the other two major service calibers!
So then what do you use? Cause the only firearms manufacturer that I know of that explicitly mentions +p+ in the manual as being okay is the HK USP. Also, what was once true isn't the case anymore.
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One thing no one has mentioned is frame material. I'm referring to finishes also .Some newer guns restrict pressure , bullet weight , and cleaning proceedures. When in doubt READ INSTRUCTUOS !
Aluminum and Titanium frames may have special coatings and if damaged may the frame underneath may also be damaged. Go easy on cleaning .While shiney metal may look nice it may be the path to frame damage !!
Aluminum and Titanium frames may have special coatings and if damaged may the frame underneath may also be damaged. Go easy on cleaning .While shiney metal may look nice it may be the path to frame damage !!
Me thinks the Beretta/Walther alloy frames will outlast those using the Browning tilting barrel method.
Don't know about the Beretta, but the Walther alloy frames had a bad habit of cracking. Walther's idea was to reinforce the frames by shoving a piece of Allen wrench through it.
I'll stick with the steel...
By the time you shoot out the frame on any alloy pistol you'll have spent enough in ammunition to have bought a replacement many times over with the consistency of metallurgy these days.
I would be inclined to not bet on that with a post-war P.38.
sigarms228
New member
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Exactly. That is what I do. 95 percent of my shooting is done with regular pressure ammo buy my SD ammo is P+ Speer Gold Dots or Federal HST.
Exactly. That is what I do. 95 percent of my shooting is done with regular pressure ammo buy my SD ammo is P+ Speer Gold Dots or Federal HST.
An alloy frame won't hold up as long as a steel frame or even plastic framed pistol regardless of whether you use standard or +p ammo.
These are probably a stupid questions but isn't steel an alloy also? Does an alloy frame mean something different when applied to firearms?