al Qaeda Desperation

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good point about the American Revolution....

The Britsh Crown was fighting an idea.

The Russians in Afghanistan were fighting an idea.

how do you kill an idea with a bullet, bayonet or bomb?

The Jihadists are hungry like the colonists...and we Americans have gotten a tad fat and lazy.

2-0 so far for the idea

The American way isn't to fight an idea it is to give these people a "NEW IDEA" called democracy and freedom. Sure all the other countries were failures but we won't fail as long as we don't cut and run like cowards.

Let me ask you, What religion did the people follow before the Muslim religion came along? What made them change to Muslims besides a new idea forced upon them by sword?

25
 
Rebar,
To answer your question directly:
Our beef is not with Muslims. Our beef is with terrorists. Not all Muslims are terrorists and not all terrorists are Muslim. Ignoring this distinction merely plays into the hands of the enemy.

Indirectly: It always disturbs me deeply when people in this community advocate abridging our civil liberties. You'd think that folks around here would know better than that, considering.
The first amendment is not negotiable any more than the second. We do not get to pick and choose which civil liberties we will protect and which are expendable. They are guaranteed to us in the single most valuable contract we have.
Our first amendment specifically forbids abridgement of freedom of the press, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and freedom of peaceable assembly.
When you advocate casting our protections aside you're no better than the liberals you demonize.
 
Al Qaeda is getting desperate and losing the war.
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First, Al Qaeda is but one branch of the rotten tree of islamofacism, to just look at them is a dangerous deflection from the root problem.

Next, we're winning where we're fighting them, but here in the West, we've capitulated to the doctrine of politically correct thinking. And we know that terrorst cells are recruiting and operating in mosques and madrasses right here in America, in Canada, in France, Germany, just about every Western country. But it's "not nice" to say so, or to do anything about it. Which is, simply, insane.

It always disturbs me deeply when people in this community advocate abridging our civil liberties.
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No one is.

Not letting a Saudi whabbist cleric have a visa has nothing to do with civil liberties. Preferring some country and peoples over other when allowing immigration is well within the rights of a sovereign nation. No islamic country allows mass immigration of Christians or Buhhdists into their lands, in fact islamic governments are today the most intolerant places on earth.

We know there are terrorist cells operating in American mosques, doesn't law enforcement, with a duty to protect the American people, need to know who, what, and where these terrorsts are, doing, and when? No one complained when the FBI infiltrated the KKK or militia movements, explain how putting agents into known hotbeds of islamofacist teaching is any different.
 
PC is what is getting them the stuff they enjoy. If you can punk out a big organization like Fox News you have some schwing. So the Jihadists are here sending money to the Jihadists overseas to support the Jihadists in Iraq who are fighting us....

Here is the new idea 25.....

Democracy in Action in the Middle East:

The United States inadvertently helped Egypt's Islamists make strong electoral gains this month and is now rethinking the wisdom of pressing rapid democratic change in a major Arab country, analysts said on Tuesday.
The Muslim Brotherhood, making the most of the more open atmosphere which Washington has promoted, has already tripled its strength in parliament to 47 of the 444 elected seats, with more than half the seats yet to be decided.

The secular opposition parties which Washington favored have performed poorly, picking up only a handful of seats -- way short of the five percent threshold they would need if they want to field a candidate in presidential elections.

LOL.....
 
The United States inadvertently helped Egypt's Islamists make strong electoral gains this month and is now rethinking the wisdom of pressing rapid democratic change in a major Arab country, analysts said on Tuesday.

Well your right about the failure of the policy:eek: but the reasons behind the failure should be pointed out.

First we have the democrats backing our enemy. Backstabbing and undermining all that our troops have died for. Even Bill Clinton was over in the middle east giving moral support to the enemy.

Second change is very hard to do when it is at the barrel of a gun and peace will only happen for that change to take place when Iraq stands up to the terrorist. Low pay and lousey economy makes the Iraqi troops unreliable.

The economy in Iraq sucks and that lack of money for joe average will turn him into scum real quick (watch Detroit now that 30,000 have been laid off). No jobs means you must loot to stay alive over there.

Finally we the people are not giving enough support to win this. We are selfish and self centered and unwilling to see that if this fails in Iraq that we will all suffer the consequences. It has all turned to politics:barf:

25
 
I haven't followed this thread much because it seemed to stray from the original topic from about post 3 onward.

But this caught my eye as I made a cursory glance over the posts:

First we have the democrats backing our enemy. Backstabbing and undermining all that our troops have died for. Even Bill Clinton was over in the middle east giving moral support to the enemy.
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You have got to be kidding ... :barf:

FYI, there are soldiers who are Democrats, even soldiers deployed to Iraq. This whole rhetoric of "dissent=unpatriotic" really needs to stop. I'd love to see you go up to a deployed soldier who is a Democrat and tell him or her that he's "backstabbing and undermining all that our troops have died for." :mad:
 
FYI, there are soldiers who are Democrats, even soldiers deployed to Iraq. This whole rhetoric of "dissent=unpatriotic" really needs to stop.

Well I have talked to those troops while I was there and they don't like the idea that the politcs of this has turned ugly. When the Democrat leaders vote to send you over to sacrifice then don't see the job through it isn't dissent it is failure to have the stomach to do the job.

Time to close the thread, I have voiced dissent against the democrats:eek: :eek:
 
model 25, come now, let's not be naive and pretend like the politics of the war suddenly became ugly, or uglier than they have been, or that the recent noises that the Democrats made are somehow making the war unwinable.

I stand corrected in some sense ... you say that you talked with soldiers that were Democrats. OK, so did you tell them that they were backstabbing and undermining? Or is this something you only do within the anonymity of the internet?

The Republicans trot the "unpatriotism of dissent" bit out every time something goes poorly for them with regard to the war. It seems to come and go in cycles.

If the American military is so weak that it cannot stand criticism, not even of it directly, but of the administration responsible for sending it into Iraq, then the American military is far weaker than I thought it was.

For what it's worth, I wish the Democrats who voted to send Americans troops to Iraq hadn't; they made a very serious mistake and betrayed a lot of their own party when they did that. A great many on my side of the table voiced opposition to the invasion of Iraq from the beginning, and we routinely are accused of everything from treason to freedom-hating to general wussiness. None of those arguments hold much water.

This thread should have been warned about veer much earlier, like right around post 3, IMHO ... I know I'm done with it.
 
Dissent, I remember well my Marine Corps brother winning the bronze star and purple heart while being shot to pieces in Vietnam to come home so the dissenters could spit on him and throw bags of feces at him in dissent of the war.

Lots of people here don't remember that and don't remember who these people are and who they have become. I do.

I am a dissenter against those who would have us cut and run. To cut and run again weakens America.

The time for dissent was before we got into a fight if you didn't want a war, not when men are on the ground. We saw this in VietNam and many a brave American died because we didn't stand behind our troops.

To stiffle discussion on this by shutting down the thread serves no one but hey it's your house.

25
 
I think Al Qaeda in Iraq is slowly dying because they are losing local support for targeting civilians. I think the blunderous attack at the Jordan wedding is the straw the will break their backs. They will hopefully get less money and recruits, and be "ratted out" by the locals more often.
 
There's different forms of dissent. Spitting on people, etc. is not an acceptable form of dissent, nor would you hear me defend it. I'd have to spit on my own brother, were that the case.

Dissent can, and sometimes should, continue through the course of a conflict, not just prior to it. I think that the Iraq conflict is an example of such a conflict where dissent all along the line has been, is, and continues to be justified. To enumerate the reasons would require starting a new thread.

I'm not trying to shut down the thread, and it certainly isn't my "house" in the sense that I would have the power to do so. However, you're the one who basically equated the activities of Democrats with those of al-Qaeda in post #3, not I. I'm just calling you on the carpet for it.

IIRC, the post that started this thread was about the tactics of al-Qaeda, not how Democrats are horrible traitors.
 
I'm not trying to shut down the thread, and it certainly isn't my "house" in the sense that I would have the power to do so. However, you're the one who basically equated the activities of Democrats with those of al-Qaeda in post #3, not I. I'm just calling you on the carpet for it.


This is where you and I differ, al-Qaeda are dissidents themselves and have taken it to the extreme. For them to kill us they must have the Muslim support it takes for the gorilla type action that AL-Qaeda needs to survive.

Vietnam was the same and the war there drug on because of the Jane Fondas and such that showed a divided America. I say fight the war to win and let history be the judge of who was right or wrong but our sons and daughters are there right now and to do anything that gives the enemy a reason to fight, to hang on is killing our people.

Public discourse is seen by the world as to our unity on winning. Our enemies will use our own words against us and it won't be me that gets the next soldier killed because I publicly came out against us winning this war.

25
 
One last question and I will drop the subject. I have seen Bill Clinton go to the middle east and call this war a big mistake on Americas behalf. The build up for this war was under Clintons watch and we were attacked alot of times while he was in office. Each time he cut and run which embolden Al-Qaeda.

What is the democrat stratagy after they have us cut and run and who will be in charge of IRAQ?

25
 
model 25, this is going in circles. In the interest of avoiding further thread veer, and against my better judgement, I'll start another thread within this forum about dissent in time of war. Then this one can go back to tactics, rather than the ideological squabble have here.

Suffice to say on this one, my public opposition to the invasion of Iraq isn't an al-Qaeda tactic.
 
The war in Iraq has everything to do....with what the Jihadists want. They could care less if your liberal, conservative or whatever. You an unbeliver plain and simple.

You have three choices as an unbeleiver

1. Convert to Islam
2. Pay the Tax ( The tax is whatever they say it is)
3. Death
If you choose 2 you go into Dhimmi...which would be discrimination (inferior being)

The Jihadist have used our political and system of laws against us. There have been Republicans and Democrats who have been schmoozing them. The 9/11 Commision Report says that the greatest failure in the War on Terrorism was imagination on what there capabilites were..... However, one of my profs and I were having a discussion and the prof stated that to have imagination you have to have education.

we as a nation and administrations could use some education, me included.
 
You have three choices as an unbeleiver
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Almost correct. You have those three choices if you're Jewish or Christian.

If you're Buddist, Hindu, some other religion, or athiest, then you only have two choices:
1) Submit to islam
2) Death
 
Neat little parody of the history of Islamic treatment of other religions, no doubt informed by a good long look at the primary sources available....err, not relevant anyway.

Al Qaeda gives only one option: death. They do not care if you become muslim, if you are muslim, or if you're not. All that matters to these people is control, the most recent example in the long saga of their indiscriminate violence being the Jordan bombings.

I think the fact that we're still discussing this is pretty good evidence that Al Qaeda and the other Arab terrorists are far from "desperate" in Iraq. I think it's much more the case that Americans are, recognizing that defeat is a serious possibility, desperate to put the best spin on the situation possible.

Maybe next time we'll spend a little more time getting to understand the culture, differences, and people before we rush to support a war on someone else's turf. If the nation's leadership had this good long debate about what's going on in the middle east for years instead of not at all it might not have been stuck in the uncomfortable position it is now.
 
Neat little parody of the history of Islamic treatment of other religions, no doubt informed by a good long look at the primary sources available
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Parody? Hardly. Any reasonable reading of the koran and the haditha, along with a knowledge of the doctrine of abrogation (naskh), where the "nice" parts of the koran are cancelled out, the dhimma where the choices are submission or death, or slavery if you're lucky, and lying to non-muslems (taqiyya and kitman) to further the cause of worldwide domination of islam, will show the incredible intolerance intrinsic to islam.
I think it's much more the case that Americans are, recognizing that defeat is a serious possibility, desperate to put the best spin on the situation possible.
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You wish, but no such luck. We're not going to lose, unless we throw in the towel. When they have to sacrifice their top leaders to continue their pointless muder spree, you know they're reaching the bottom of the barrel.
 
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