AK47 vs. M16

AK47 or M16

  • AK47

    Votes: 63 44.4%

  • M16

    Votes: 79 55.6%
  • Total voters
    142
  • Poll closed .
When considering mags for your AR ... PMAGs are the sh!t :cool:



I like 30 round Chinese mags in my AK and ChiCom 75 & 100 round drums are nice to have :)
 
If the design of the magazines for your service rifle are known to be rather flimsy, that is a design flaw.
Click to expand...
And it is being corrected with the use of the HK and P-mags to match the philosophy of the people who control the money to buy magazines, i.e. they are durable items. Both rifles are compromises to match their design philosophy, the AK went with max reliability at all costs, the AR went with max reliability and accuracy with light weight. Only now with the polymer P-mags is the technology required to make it work catching up to the concept.

However, if Joe hadn't been keeping his old aluminum mags in a plastic shopping bag bouncing around in the bed of his pickup while he drove to the range, he might have a better opinion of AR reliability. If Joe had been guiding his mags into the magwell by using his index finger along the front as a guide, maybe he wouldn't have gotten the edge of the magwell slamming straight down the center of the feedlips onto the back weld, and maybe he would have a better opinion of AR reliability. Since Joe doesn't throw his rifle into a closet at the end of the day, but instead lays it lovingly into a gun safe, why does he throw his mags around? They're not an accessory, they're an integral part of the rifle. Because Joe is ignorant about the cause of the unreliability. And I haven't even started getting into how Joe is using his crummy mags in his kit-built AR that took him three hours to make instead of a mil-spec rifle.
 
Out of the 2, I voted for the M-16. I've used the M-16/M-4 in a lot of places under a lot of conditions and have never had a problem. Then again, I'm a cleaning fanatic anyways so that's not been an issue for me. I own both types (7 AK variants and 5 ARs with 2 more lowers on the way) and can say that both designs have their vices and virtues, many that have already been discussed here already. I guess my bottom line is you can make any M-16 very reliable through disciplined maintence. However, you can't make a run of the mill AK accurate.
 
I've shot both and i will have to pick:
Avtomat Kalashnikova model of 1947 on this one, This thing eats anything you throw at it, and will keep firing no matter what, If my life depended on it, I wouldn't think twice bout it.
 
I don't hear the AK proponents here talking about how you have to use certain types of mags to get the AK to run right. Seem to me that pretty much answers our questions here.
 
What we think for what. I need to know what purpose it is being used for. Long range, short range, varmint, people, accuracy, reliability? It is like trying to compare an indy car, to a sprint car, to a gokart, we are not talking apples to apples.

btw... my ak will take any mag I stick in it and it does not have to be squeeky clean like my ar.
 
it does not have to be squeeky clean like my ar.
Click to expand...
And what kind of AR do you have? My Colts function as well at the end of a 1000-round shooting session as they do at the beginning. That is to say, flawlessly.
 
It is a frankin ar, but like other ar's from my experience they start to choke after a few k. Dont get me wrong I love ar's but they will and do choke if not cleaned regardless of brand.
 
It is a frankin ar, but like other ar's from my experience they start to choke after a few k.
Click to expand...
And what other ARs would those be? I've never seen a Colt malfunction that wasn't magazine-related in 12 years of working with them and owning them. Well, there was that lefty I saw who had it jam every round, but that was because he was holding his support hand over the ejection port so the spent brass bounced back into the ejection port/chamber area every time he fired. Okay, magazine or user-related malfunction, I stand corrected.

But to blame the design for malfunctioning when you build your own is like complaining that your stock car won't win NASCAR races when you built it from junkyard parts.
 
Both are good rifles, and its not for lack of bodies to study.

I choose the Ak, simmply because I've got more expereince with it.
 
Given my choice, I would opt for the AK47 over the M16. I saw M-16s fail for every reason including "God felt like it". I was in USN Squadron 116 River Division 530 at the end of the Navy's participation in the Mekong River War Games, and decided there that if I ever had the choice of trading .30s for .22s I would do so, as the reverse sucks. My boat had 9 men posted to it in the 8 months and 16 days while I was held captive, and only 7 came home alive, and in my case it was with a broken back and concussion (my third purple heart). I never drew a M-16 for boarding and searching operations, and deck fights, always choosing a shotgun instead. By the time I made GM2 I was usually on the forward .50s. It was good to have all that fire power, but it also meant that all the Russian .51s and any RPGs we came across in the province were aimed at my gun position. There was once when I ran my guns dry and was re-arming them that an RPG sprinted in, set to kill. It glanced off the splinter shield of gun 2, knocked off my helmet and set fire to my hair on the right side of my head, which the Chief put out with a fire extinguisher. I can't say I remember much for a bit except that I came to on the deck, got up and finished rearming my guns, and got back into the fight. As far as I am concerned the best combat weapon of all time is John Brownings Air Cooled M2 .50 Caliber Machine Gun. Second Place goes to the pistol accepted as the US Semi-Automatic Pistol of 1911; and as the long trigger and flat mainspring housing is kept, then the 1911-A1 gets my appreciation as well. I can't help for having big hands.:)
The M-16 can be a fine arm on the target range; even be superlative at it when the right components and handloaded ammunition are assembled. The semi-automatic version of the M-16, the AR-15, which Eugene Stoner originally sold to the Air Force to kill jack rabbits and coyotes on runways, can be a remarkable rifle, for limited service. But, I did not appreciate having to put my life on the line behind the piece of crap known as the M-16 that I was issued in Viet Nam. I would have gladly traded the M-16 for an AK-47, except that the muzzle signature was so different that it would cause friendly fire casualties. Many Special Forces, Force Recon, and SEAL team members who used AKs because of policy in Cambodia found themselves on the receiving end of US fire close to the border. For my own edification these days I spend some time shooting a Ruger Mini-30; which seems to have all the lean, and no fat.

Adios
Beauhooligan
 
I've got a friend that has been in the marine corps his entire career ( combat as well) , when he got out , he purchased one rifle for "just in case" purposes and i was shocked to learn that he bought an AK47 with scope and 1000 rounds of ammo. when i asked him why (in shock) he simply said "because she will never leave me hanging and with my marksmanship skills i can hit exactly what im aiming at with it to 400 yards" needless to say i was dumbfounded.
 
Re Poll this

We need a re poll on this. I think somehhow the results got tainted with pride of the origin of the two rifles. AK wins hands down as the best combat rifle today, but M16 is known for its balanced recoil.

We need poll with more options of service rifles around the world.
 
However, if Joe hadn't been keeping his old aluminum mags in a plastic shopping bag bouncing around in the bed of his pickup while he drove to the range, he might have a better opinion of AR reliability. If Joe had been guiding his mags into the magwell by using his index finger along the front as a guide, maybe he wouldn't have gotten the edge of the magwell slamming straight down the center of the feedlips onto the back weld, and maybe he would have a better opinion of AR reliability.
Click to expand...

So in other words the AR is a great battle rifle for those who aren't fighting battles.
 
So in other words the AR is a great battle rifle for those who aren't fighting battles.
Click to expand...
No, the AR is a great battle rifle for those who have a supply system that allows them to inspect and replace their mags as required. Perhaps you missed this earlier.
So, the AR is a piece of junk due to its magazine design, right? Wrong. AK magazines were designed for hard use by an army that has no supply system except for our old Communist friends that lavished them with nothing but ammunition after their initial supply of rifles and mags were shipped in. The AR was designed for an army that has a working supply system and can replace magazines with ease. Here's the problem: no one knows that AR magazines were designed cheap because they were supposed to be disposable. Why should a company commander spend money on magazines when the ones in his arms room look just fine? Answer: they won't. I know this because in over nine years in the same unit, I have never seen new magazines unless they came with new rifles, like when we swapped our M16A2s for M4s. However, the supply source code for AR magazines is PACZZ, meaning that it is nonrepairable and nonrecoverable, as evidenced by the ZZ at the end. So these magazines are being used far beyond their usable service lives (Pat Rogers can tell you the actual service life, I don't remember at the moment), since no maintainer will inspect them for servicability. It is the responsibility of the user. Most users don't know that magazines have limited service lives, hence the perpetuation of the problem. Also, the user is only required to slide the magazine into the well to check for ease of insertion and check the spring tension and follower movement during maintenance. Both will pass with a broken but unloaded magazine, which is what you will have when conducting maintenance. No checks of the welds are required, and the problem will only manifest itself when the magazine is loaded. Also, no checks of the feed lips are required. You will find out that your mag is tango uniform when you are locking and loading. This is usually too late. However, I have developed a simple solution to mark defective magazines that I find, whether at the qualification range or during maintenance. You stomp it flat and bend it in half. Sooner or later, your company commander will realize that he is low on mags and order new ones.
Click to expand...
The AR is a great battle rifle for those who fight in a professional army. The AK is a great battle rifle if you never expect a resupply of anything except ammo.
 
Why is it the AR guys will always say that any AR malfunction is always the mags fault? I mean how do you know that first of all. Secondly, I work with a government agency that uses Colt AR15s with colt mags. I have NEVER in 13 years seen us hit the qualification line even once in 13 years where at least one of the AR15 didn't have problems jamming in some way. These are newer ARs with new mags. This past qual THREE ARs malfunctioned and the shooters had to re-shoot. I have never experienced a problem personally with an AR but I've seen it enough times that when I went shopping for a SHTF gun this week I put my money on an AK47. I have four years in the Marine Corps and 13 years in the Federal Govt using AR15s. I am currently building an AR for a sporting rifle for target shooting but for the real dirty work I'll rely on my AK.
 
IZinterrogator
The AR is a great battle rifle for those who fight in a professional army.
The AK is a great battle rifle if you never expect a resupply of anything except ammo.
Click to expand...

Most citizens never expect a resupply of anything, so I guess a piston driven AK is the smart choice :cool:

Type56SHTF-with75rdDrum.jpg
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top