AK47 Ammo

I think enough of the Brown Bear that it's my standard for defensive AKs as well as for practice.
I don't see the additional cost of a soft-point hunting round as necessary for those uses, the BB should handle human threats out to 100 yards quite easily without needing expansion.
Denis
 
The ballistic gel tests I saw showed not much diff in damage between FMJ and bi-metal HP(my experience is the HP is there for show and feeding insurance not expansion enhancement). The V-Max most assuredly will expand within 150 yards but I haven't tried it further.
Regarding the PPU round nose, the only rifle that I've seen feed it properly is my bolt action Remington 799. I've heard this from several other sources as well.
Ditto on some of the "soft point" steel cased. One customer said each and every round jammed the exposed lead against the back edge of the chamber on both SKS and AK(this is only a two rifle test but for him it was a 100% failure). I know many use these rounds for hunting. If it works in YOUR rifle, that's good. Just don't expect it to work this way until you've tried it.
That's why I use the bi-metal HP. It's both legal for hunting should I have the need and it feeds as well as FMJ.
 
All the import HP's Ive pulled apart have been "match" type HP's (not expanding/hunting HP's), and in reality, they are not even a match type bullet at all, as they all had roll crimped bases, just like the FMJ bullets. I think the HP's are just a marketing thing, and really have nothing to do with anything other than that.

Ive used the Barnaul SP's and some Wolf SP's, in all my AK's and SKS's, and never once had a feeding issue of any sort. As I said earlier, the Barnaul 125 grain SP bullets are built, and look just like Sierra Game Kings, and have a fully jacketed, and "clean" base. They have been the most accurate and consistent of any the 7.62x39 rounds Ive tried over the years.

I do have a couple of cans of Wolf 154 grain SP's, that are also pretty consistent accuracy wise, even though they have the standard roll crimp bases. The couple I pulled, were all "clean", unlike a number of lots of other Wolf Ive pulled that had lead smears across the bases. I think thats where the accuracy issues come in with the Wolf, or at least thats what it seems like to me. Those lots with smears across the crimped bases were the ones with poor and/or erratic accuracy.
 
depends on what you need it to be effective for. for any case your best ballistic coefficient is more than likely to be found in the 123gr hornady SST so it would be more accurate. more effective against living targets may also be the SST but they notorious for not doing what hornady claims they are supposed to do and a lot of people don't like them for hunting.
 
Hornady VMAX

I've noticed several people recommending this ammo. FYI: In the ar15 forum under "Wounding Effects of Common Combloc Ammo Calibers," the author states that the VMAX is improperly labeled, it is in actuality SST ammo.
 
well during an urban uprising would you think that you only need 1 box of ammo or a few hundred rounds on hand?

the soft tip or polymer tip ammo would be your most lethal but that stuff runs from $25 a box to $45 a box of twenty. compare with tula FMJ ammo for $5 a box of 20. which would you rather stockpile 500 rounds of?

a barnes triple shock would be your most lethal but 500 rounds would cost you $1125 plus shipping if you ordered online...

compare to the tula that would only cost you $125. the barnes are more lethal but many a US servicemember has lost their lives to a full metal jacket 7.62x39 bullet.
 
Snub: if this extremely unlikely scenario could involve any hoods driving their (carjacked) vehicles, wouldn't fmj do better when needed to penetrate a car windshield or door?
 
tahunua001 - That may be the reason Hornady SST is not all that expensive and is so readily available.

If tests would prove that the Barnes Triple Shock is the most effective ammo for my purpose, I would buy at least 200 - 300 rounds of it. With my wife's and my lives on the line I don't care about the cost. I want the most dependable and effective 7.62x39 ammo available. The problem is that I don't think anyone can say what the best is.

Ignition Override - I don't think this scenario is extremely unlikely at all. Do you remember the 1964 riots that nearly burned down Harlem; the Rodney King riots that took Los Angles apart; the 2010 Oakland civil unrest; hurricane Katrina; last year's Brooklyn riots over the shooting of Kimani Gray? And these are just a few examples. I - and many others - feel we could be on the brink of a catastrophe in our country that could trigger civil unrest throughout the entire U.S. I pray it doesn't happen, but I will be prepared if it does.
 
Ignition Override - I neglected to mention that I don't think many people would be in vehicles. Nearly everyone would be on foot.
 
The problem is that I don't think anyone can say what the best is.
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I personally wouldnt waste my money on the "fancy" stuff. Plain old ball and/or SP's will cover pretty much anything you need to deal with.

Whats best is what you have in the gun, and will let you shoot through anything the other guy thinks is "cover".
 
overthink

I've got to believe we're overthinking this whole business. The x39mm round seems pretty potent w/o the benefit of an expanding slug. Nah, I wouldn't hunt with it,(FMJ) but I cannot bring myself to believe that a thug would take an x39 round FMJ on the torso, or many places, and pose much more of a threat. We're not talking handgun slugs here, slipping along around 100 fps, but bonafide rifle (carbine) cartridge, with a reasonably heavy slug, easily exceeding 2000 fps at the muzzle. The needle nosed HP's, if they feed in your rifle, are more of the same. No doubt the top shelf SP's and expanding slugs are effective, but I am of the position you don't need them in x39mm.

FMJ/HP is plentiful, inexpensive (generally), and even the Wolf and Tula stuff seems reliable. If one wanted to up the reliability score a bit, you might go with domestic FMJ, but I would not fret over FMJ in x39mm as a serious "social" round.
 
Snub: if this extremely unlikely scenario could involve any hoods driving their (carjacked) vehicles, wouldn't fmj do better when needed to penetrate a car windshield or door?
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Most pistol rounds, even HP's can go through car doors like paper. Windows are a little tougher, but should be no problem for a 123 grain projectile @ 2000+FPS. A FMJ probably would penetrate cover slightly better, but even a soft point would do a more than adequate job on most common barriers.

Here are some independent tests for anyone interested on what projectiles fired into a car will do.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/thebuickotruth.htm

...To save you some time. The tests concluded cars don't offer much protection from firearms.
 
bamaranger - I think you hit the nail on the head. In the kind of scenario in which I would use my AK - defending my family & home from looters or rioters - I don't think it would make any difference what ammo I use as long as it is reliable. They're going to get perforated with whatever 7.62x39 ammo I'm using. And when they see I'm determined to protect my family and possessions, they will more than likely go elsewhere and seek "softer" targets where their lives are not in danger.

My motivation would be to simply STOP the attack. Whether the people who get holes shot in them live or die is not my concern. I would just want to stop the attack. Once I start shooting, the crowd will likely be motivated to go elsewhere - fast. None of them would want to die.

Once shot with an AK47 at close range, that individual will either be motivated or forced to stop his attack, and I don't really think the ammo type would make any difference. A soft point bullet should expand and immediately stop the person. A FMJ should stop the person, but if it happens to go through him and into the person behind him, I get 2 for the price of 1.
 
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