customaquatics
New member
i was going to buy a AK-47 with my tax return next year "yes i know im a little early" but what would be the best one to get since the russians are really rare? i was goin to go ahead an start buying stuff for it now.
ak question
- Thread starter customaquatics
- Start date
Depends on what you are looking for. If you want an "AK styled weapon", Izhmash Saigas are the best you can get. They are made in the same factory as the Russian army AK's and only differ by the lack of full auto option (removed by tiny weld-job) and other magazines.
They are closely followed in quality by Polish Tantals, Chinese Norinco (I think you guys in the US have a ban on that? don't know for sure), Romanian WASR and all on the bottom Arsenal AK's.
If you want an "original" AK-47, Norinco is as close as it can get, with a heavier receiver, no ribbs and no slant-cut muzzle brake.
If you want an AKM, the WASR is as close as you're going to get, especially those pre 1970.
If you want an AK-74, Polish Tantals can be found in 5.45x39mm.
Bear in mind that the accuracy may vary wildly on these types, we're talking about MOA capabilities from Izhmash to 5 MOA groups from the WASR. More information on what you're looking for and what your budget is.
They are closely followed in quality by Polish Tantals, Chinese Norinco (I think you guys in the US have a ban on that? don't know for sure), Romanian WASR and all on the bottom Arsenal AK's.
If you want an "original" AK-47, Norinco is as close as it can get, with a heavier receiver, no ribbs and no slant-cut muzzle brake.
If you want an AKM, the WASR is as close as you're going to get, especially those pre 1970.
If you want an AK-74, Polish Tantals can be found in 5.45x39mm.
Bear in mind that the accuracy may vary wildly on these types, we're talking about MOA capabilities from Izhmash to 5 MOA groups from the WASR. More information on what you're looking for and what your budget is.
customaquatics
New member
i was wondering cause the romanian ak's around here are common around here.
Yes, here too. They have quite a good price/quality factor, but it still depends what you will be using it for. Remember that if you go out to buy a WASR-10, you should check if the gas block isn't canted. Just place the butt between your feet and look down to see if the gas block is in line with the barrel.
Nickel Plated
New member
I thought the Arsenal AKs were some of the best since all they do is take the Saigas and convert them so you don't have to.
To me, a Saiga or something built off one, like Arsenal would be the only choice. I'm Russian, and my dad would not let me hear the end of it if I bought some Chinese or Romanian knock-off.
To me, a Saiga or something built off one, like Arsenal would be the only choice. I'm Russian, and my dad would not let me hear the end of it if I bought some Chinese or Romanian knock-off.
The receiver on an Arsenal is Russian, the barrel varies with Russian AK's. The Saiga M3 exp 01 costs 545 Euros here, mostly firearms in the US are cheaper. I don't know why one would take an Arsenal if the Izhmash ones are so cheap. The Polymer stock is great, locks tightly in place too.
I'd say the Arsenal's are the best AK's you can buy. The only negative with the Arsenal guns is the finish IMO. The Norinco's and Polytech's are excellent Chinese variants but I don't believe they are still imported. Valmet AK's are superb if you can find one. In my opinion the next best thing are the Bulgarian AK variants. But then a lot of guys swear by their WASR's and Polish Tantels if you can find a good one. Lots of good choices.
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Nickel Plated
New member
I don't know if it's different in Belgium, but in the US laws prohibit importing "scary" looking guns. So the Saigas have to be imported in a sporter configuration. Meaning no pistol grip, and 10 round mags. Also the triggers are redesigned to fit that sporter configuration and are kinda bad. Arsenal is good because they take the otherwise great Saiga, and turn it into a "proper" AK.
While alot of people do the conversion themselves, it is convenient to just buy the whole gun pre-built.
While alot of people do the conversion themselves, it is convenient to just buy the whole gun pre-built.
I didn't know that. Such a shame. The 10 round mags are standard factory though, 30 rounders can be bought but only in Russia and will cost around 120 dollars. To make a Saiga receive standard AK mags, some work needs to be done with the feed ramp. A friend of mine in the US owns a Arsenal and said the barrels were US made, not chrome-lined and kind of thin on his rifle, But I don't know if that's the SGL or SLR.
**OFF-TOPIC** Is there any sane reason why you can't import standard Saigas but are allowed to convert them and resell them? And does that ban also affect assault rifles from other countries? (Sa.58, G36, ...)
Master Blaster 2
Moderator
30 round magazines are rather inexpensive accually. Only $13.00 on up.
REF: http://www.impactguns.com/ak47-magazines.aspx
REF: http://www.impactguns.com/ak47-magazines.aspx
Master Blaster 2
Moderator
You can easily modify the Saiga to take regular AK mags yourself if you can use a drill, tap and file.
Install a bullet guide (available online- http://www.dinzagarms.com/saiga_762x...ga_762x39.html) and file down top of the mag catch.
Takes all of thirty minutes. And that's having a couple of five-minute breaks.
Install a bullet guide (available online- http://www.dinzagarms.com/saiga_762x...ga_762x39.html) and file down top of the mag catch.
Takes all of thirty minutes. And that's having a couple of five-minute breaks.
customaquatics
New member
how much would the Saiga go for?
Nickel Plated
New member
Don't try to make sense of US gun laws. The people who write them don't know what they are doing, and the people who are affected by them (us) always find a way around them. And yes it affects other rifles as well. I think it's the entire reason for the existence of the H&K SL-8 and SL-9 just so they could import them to the US. Although like with the Saiga, people have found ways to covert them back to more-or-less standard G36 configuration once they get here.
colostomyclown
New member
the Arsenal is not on the bottom, lol
some terrible misinformation in this thread
good brands :
arsenal, vector, izhmash/saiga, Krebs, Red Jacket
ok :
Norinco, Century WASR, MAADI, Century SAR-1, everything else
it's hard to find a bad ak, which is a testament to it's design. It all depends upon your price range. Almost anything you run across will be serviceable as long as there isn't a lot of sight cant. If you get a Saiga, you will have to modify and add compliance parts to make it look like other guns mentioned. Personally, I'd find a Vector or an Arsenal. The only AK guns I recommend avoiding are the Century AK-74's because of barrel issues. The base gun is great, but you'll need to swap the barrel out, something you shouldn't have to do with your first ak.
Also, there is no point in "buying stuff for it now" because you haven't shot what you've purchase enough to know what, if anything, it needs, beside magazines and ammo. Tacticool doo-dads by and large often times will turn a great gun into a piece of trash.
some terrible misinformation in this thread
good brands :
arsenal, vector, izhmash/saiga, Krebs, Red Jacket
ok :
Norinco, Century WASR, MAADI, Century SAR-1, everything else
it's hard to find a bad ak, which is a testament to it's design. It all depends upon your price range. Almost anything you run across will be serviceable as long as there isn't a lot of sight cant. If you get a Saiga, you will have to modify and add compliance parts to make it look like other guns mentioned. Personally, I'd find a Vector or an Arsenal. The only AK guns I recommend avoiding are the Century AK-74's because of barrel issues. The base gun is great, but you'll need to swap the barrel out, something you shouldn't have to do with your first ak.
Also, there is no point in "buying stuff for it now" because you haven't shot what you've purchase enough to know what, if anything, it needs, beside magazines and ammo. Tacticool doo-dads by and large often times will turn a great gun into a piece of trash.
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A basic Saiga will run between $375 to $425 depending on the dealer. Then another $150 to $200 to convert it to true AK style. Study BATFE section 922r to convert it legally. I have left mine as-is. I actually like the Saiga in it’s original sporter stock. All I did was add 12 ounces of lead wheel weights to the inside of the stock. The sporter Saiga’s are front heavy / rear light. Now it balances much better.
Customaquatics, don't pay attention to that guy from Belgium. He doesn't know much about the AK scene here in the US and has given you bad advice and misinformation. For one, Chinese AKs haven't been imported into the US in over 15 years so you can't buy any Chinese AK unless you buy a used one that entered the US before the Assault Weapons Ban. You will pay a premium for one of these "pre-ban" rifles. Same goes for the Finnish Valmet.
Russian made AKs are not rare in the US, not anymore. The Arsenal SGL series of AKs (SGL21 for 7.62X39mm and SGL31 for 5.45X39mm) are made in Russia at the same Izmash factory in Izhvsk that makes AKs for the Russian military. The receiver is Russian made, the barrel is the same as on the Russian AK100 series rifles and is chrome lined. It does have some American made parts to comply with the goofy Federal law. The muzzle brake is US made and not chrome lined. The furniture (buttstock, hand guards, & pistol grip) is a very well made US copy of the Russian. The fire control group (trigger mechanism) is US made as is the gas piston). The SGL series rifles have magazine wells that allow the use of military double staggered magazines (20, 30, and 40 rd) straight out of the box. Standard capacity AK magazines are not expensive. You can buy like new steel Warsaw Pact military surplus AK mags for as low as $10 each. A piece of advice is to avoid ANY US made AK mag such as ProMags and the like. Stick to the military surplus steel mags or the polymer Bulgarian Circle 10 mags.
Arsenal also has some models of AKs based on Bulgarian models and they too are a high quality rifle. Arsenals are the highest quality factory AKs currently available for sale in the US discounting what's available from custom shops like Krebs and Rifle Dynamics. All other new AKs currently available in the US are built here in the US using US made receivers, barrels (most often not chrome lined), fire control groups and parts kits that consist of old Warsaw Pact full auto military AKs that have been disassembled and shipped to the US minus their receivers and barrels.
Romanian Wasrs are the lowest quality AK you can buy in the US. They mostly seem to work ok inspite how Century slaps them together. There's lots of complaints about canted front sights and gas blocks on Wasrs so it's probably best to buy one of these in person (if you go with a Wasr) so you can closely inspect the particular rifle you select.
The Saiga is an AK in sporter configuration made at the same Izmash factory in Russia as the Arsenal SGLs. To make it look like a "real" AK, you will have to converted it as some have mentioned earlier in this thread. Only you can determine if you have the mechanical skills to do so or whether it's worth your time. I don't think you'll end up saving much money converting a Saiga over just buying an Arsenal SGL21. Not after you consider the price of the Saiga, all the parts you need for the conversion and then the time and effort to actually do the work. If you are a do-it-yourselfer then go for it.
I got an Arsenal SGL21 back a year and a half ago for $505.00 when they were on sale and I'm extremely pleased with it. Hope this helps to clear up some of the earlier misinformation.
Russian made AKs are not rare in the US, not anymore. The Arsenal SGL series of AKs (SGL21 for 7.62X39mm and SGL31 for 5.45X39mm) are made in Russia at the same Izmash factory in Izhvsk that makes AKs for the Russian military. The receiver is Russian made, the barrel is the same as on the Russian AK100 series rifles and is chrome lined. It does have some American made parts to comply with the goofy Federal law. The muzzle brake is US made and not chrome lined. The furniture (buttstock, hand guards, & pistol grip) is a very well made US copy of the Russian. The fire control group (trigger mechanism) is US made as is the gas piston). The SGL series rifles have magazine wells that allow the use of military double staggered magazines (20, 30, and 40 rd) straight out of the box. Standard capacity AK magazines are not expensive. You can buy like new steel Warsaw Pact military surplus AK mags for as low as $10 each. A piece of advice is to avoid ANY US made AK mag such as ProMags and the like. Stick to the military surplus steel mags or the polymer Bulgarian Circle 10 mags.
Arsenal also has some models of AKs based on Bulgarian models and they too are a high quality rifle. Arsenals are the highest quality factory AKs currently available for sale in the US discounting what's available from custom shops like Krebs and Rifle Dynamics. All other new AKs currently available in the US are built here in the US using US made receivers, barrels (most often not chrome lined), fire control groups and parts kits that consist of old Warsaw Pact full auto military AKs that have been disassembled and shipped to the US minus their receivers and barrels.
Romanian Wasrs are the lowest quality AK you can buy in the US. They mostly seem to work ok inspite how Century slaps them together. There's lots of complaints about canted front sights and gas blocks on Wasrs so it's probably best to buy one of these in person (if you go with a Wasr) so you can closely inspect the particular rifle you select.
The Saiga is an AK in sporter configuration made at the same Izmash factory in Russia as the Arsenal SGLs. To make it look like a "real" AK, you will have to converted it as some have mentioned earlier in this thread. Only you can determine if you have the mechanical skills to do so or whether it's worth your time. I don't think you'll end up saving much money converting a Saiga over just buying an Arsenal SGL21. Not after you consider the price of the Saiga, all the parts you need for the conversion and then the time and effort to actually do the work. If you are a do-it-yourselfer then go for it.
I got an Arsenal SGL21 back a year and a half ago for $505.00 when they were on sale and I'm extremely pleased with it. Hope this helps to clear up some of the earlier misinformation.
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