Age to buy handguns

Photon Guy said:
No, just the fact that you can serve at 18 should be reason enough to make the age to buy handguns 18. Not that you have to serve but just the fact you can serve.
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Being of age to do something doesn't give you the same respect and perks of someone who actually DOES do something.

Whenever I see the "Hey, I could be drafted" bit trotted out it always comes off as a whine. It may not be, but that's just how it sounds. Yes, at 18 you could be drafted. The draft has not been in effect in my lifetime... and I'm getting uncomfortably close to 40. It's ridiculous to use that as a reason for anything because it's never doing to be restarted barring something akin to WWIII.

Basically, if you want me to agree that you deserve any consideration for being of military age, then go enlist. Otherwise, the three year wait isn't that long. You want to argue for that age to be reduced? Fine, find another reason, but it's going to be a very difficult uphill fight for it... any effort to be spent easing federal firearm laws is more likely to go towards something like removing silencers from the NFA than it is speeding up handgun purchase from FFLs by three years.
 
rwilson452 said:
Unless it has changed in the last 35 years, you can enlist at 17 with parental approval. At 17.5 you can do enlist on your own.
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I was 2 months shy of my 18th birthday when I enlisted, and my parents had to sign me away because I was still 17.
 
Basically, if you want me to agree that you deserve any consideration for being of military age, then go enlist. Otherwise, the three year wait isn't that long.
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Spoken by someone getting "uncomfortably close to 40".

Well, I'm getting "uncomfortably close to 60" and the draft was a fact of life during my lifetime. And I did enlist. And I can still remember the frustration and injustice about 18 for some things, 21 for others.

You can serve at 18. You can get married at 18. They changed the law during my lifetime, so you can vote at 18. And during my lifetime, they set the federal law for buying a handgun from an FFL dealer at 21. (1968)

When I was 18, the drinking age in NY was 18. Many other states it was 21.
Some states lowered it from 21 to 18 or 19. Some of those states have since raised it back to 21. One of the more senseless ones I ran into was in a Maryland airport bar, killing time waiting on a flight home. At 18 (which I was) they would serve me beer. They could not serve me hard liquor unless I was 21!

3 years at 18 is a much larger percentage of your life than 3 years at 40, and "isn't that long" depends on your personal point of view.

I said I can still remember the frustration and what I felt at the time was injustice, but I look at it a bit differently now, because I also recognize how many people in my age group at the time that were dangerously stupid irresponsible idiots, something I did not easily see at the time. And I'm pretty sure it's been that way for every generation, before or since...

Actually responsible youths have to live with rules made to try and keep the irresponsible from doing more damage than necessary.

about this...
That could be due to lack of experience rather than low age. Considering that in most states you have to be 16 to drive, by the time you're 19 you will only have 3 years of driving experience as opposed to a 30 year old who would have 14 years of experience provided they started driving as soon as they were old enough.
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There's a bit more to it than just time behind the wheel. I would be willing to bet, if you could find a statistically significant number of people who START driving at age 30, and chart their accidents for the next three years, comparing them to the 16-19year olds numbers, the teens would still have a higher rate of accidents.

Its not just driving experience that affects your judgment behind the wheel, it is total LIFE experience. True, some people never seem to grow up, but the majority do.
 
I seem to recall that the FBI statistics point out that most crimes are committed by an age group that ranges from 14-24. Perhaps we should raise the age to vote and buy a handgun to 25. Or perhaps fully change things as is mentioned it the fictional work By Heinlein's "Starship trooper" He suggested you can't vote unless you do several years of "public service". There is evidents to suggest that lowering the voting age to 18 was to give an advantage to the democratic party. Laws such as the LEOSA are a compromise between those that wanted it and those that didn't. Thus, you wind up with a flawed writing of the law. I see too many laws that have unintended consequences.
 
It's a waste of bandwidth to try make sense of most gun control laws. Just know that to purchase a handgun you must be 21. Legal age for possessing a handgun varies by state.
 
spoken by someone getting "uncomfortably close to 40".

Well, I'm getting "uncomfortably close to 60" and the draft was a fact of life during my lifetime. And I did enlist. And I can still remember the frustration and injustice about 18 for some things, 21 for others.

You can serve at 18. You can get married at 18. They changed the law during my lifetime, so you can vote at 18. And during my lifetime, they set the federal law for buying a handgun from an FFL dealer at 21. (1968)

When I was 18, the drinking age in NY was 18. Many other states it was 21.
Some states lowered it from 21 to 18 or 19. Some of those states have since raised it back to 21. One of the more senseless ones I ran into was in a Maryland airport bar, killing time waiting on a flight home. At 18 (which I was) they would serve me beer. They could not serve me hard liquor unless I was 21!
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I do know the reason for the reduction of the voting age from 21 to 18 was because you could get drafted at 18 or because you could serve at 18. Also I believe that when the drinking age was lowered from 21 to 18 that had to do with the Vietnam War and because people were fighting in the war at 18 they should be allowed to drink at 18. But then sometime in the mid 80s it was brought back to 21 due to organizations such as MADD.

As for getting married, you can do that when you're younger than 18. I know a girl who was married at 16. The reason she got married was because that gave her grounds to be emancipated from her parents.

As it is, owning guns and voting is a right not a privilege as defined by the constitution. There's a difference. Privileges have to be earned rights are automatically given. Some of the posts here such as the one made by TimSr seek to make voting and firearm ownership a privilege instead of a right.

3 years at 18 is a much larger percentage of your life than 3 years at 40, and "isn't that long" depends on your personal point of view.
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3 years is 3 years and it doesn't matter if you're 18, 40, or 105 although you're right that the older you get, the smaller a percentage of your life it becomes. Nevertheless, those 3 years from 18 to 21 I would not want to wait through them but rather get the most I can out of them, as I want to do with all the years of my life.

I said I can still remember the frustration and what I felt at the time was injustice, but I look at it a bit differently now, because I also recognize how many people in my age group at the time that were dangerously stupid irresponsible idiots, something I did not easily see at the time. And I'm pretty sure it's been that way for every generation, before or since...
Were you like that too? Just because some people of an age group are stupid and irresponsible doesn't mean everybody is. I think that a person should be judged on whether or not they in particular are stupid and irresponsible, not on their age.

Actually responsible youths have to live with rules made to try and keep the irresponsible from doing more damage than necessary.
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I think we all have to live like that, somewhat. For instance, look at all the gun restrictions and anti gun movements going about because of the few that are stupid and irresponsible.

There's a bit more to it than just time behind the wheel. I would be willing to bet, if you could find a statistically significant number of people who START driving at age 30, and chart their accidents for the next three years, comparing them to the 16-19year olds numbers, the teens would still have a higher rate of accidents.
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Im not sure about that. I would have to see a study that shows that and even studies can be inaccurate since they sample only a portion of the population. Although I will say this, New Jersey has some of the worst accidents and some of the worst drivers and it also has the highest driving age. In NJ you have to be 17 to drive and in all other states you can start driving at 16 or 15. Also, supposedly girls get less tickets than boys so girls have a lower insurance rate, do you think that's fair?

Its not just driving experience that affects your judgment behind the wheel, it is total LIFE experience. True, some people never seem to grow up, but the majority do.
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Its total life experience that affects everything, but I would say its the quality of the experience that's much more important than the quantity, wouldn't you?
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I seem to recall that the FBI statistics point out that most crimes are committed by an age group that ranges from 14-24. Perhaps we should raise the age to vote and buy a handgun to 25. Or perhaps fully change things as is mentioned it the fictional work By Heinlein's "Starship trooper" He suggested you can't vote unless you do several years of "public service". There is evidents to suggest that lowering the voting age to 18 was to give an advantage to the democratic party. Laws such as the LEOSA are a compromise between those that wanted it and those that didn't. Thus, you wind up with a flawed writing of the law. I see too many laws that have unintended consequences.
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Are you sure you're on the right board? Maybe a board for Brady Center to Prevent Handgun Violence might suit your viewpoints better.

Most crimes might be committed by people ages 14-24 but the fact of the matter is, most 14-24 year olds don't commit crime. The majority shouldn't have to suffer because if the few who cause trouble. Lets take age out of the equation and look at gender. By far, most violent crime is done by men. All you have to do is look at the prison, you will find that men make up the extreme vast majority of people in prison for violent crime. Should we make it so that men can't buy handguns and only women can? What would you think of that?

The way things are run in one of Heinlein's fictional books is one thing (he does write good books by the way) but the way things are run in this country is different. In this country just like owning guns voting is a right as defined by the constitution. Heinlein makes it into a privilege in his book since you have to do stuff such as public service to be able to vote, but in this country voting is not a privilege its a right, that's how it is in the constitution. Heinlein's fictional books are exactly that, fictional.

And the voting age was lowered to 18 because of people being drafted at 18 and people serving at 18, particularly in the Vietnam War. I've never heard of it being lowered to 18 to give advantage to the democratic party as there are lots of republicans too who are 18-21 years old.
 
I've never heard of it being lowered to 18 to give advantage to the democratic party as there are lots of republicans too who are 18-21 years old.
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I was there, at the time, and the voting age wasn't lowered to "give" an advantage to either party. The Democrats pushed hard, because they thought it would give them an advantage, as their "progressive" ideals would appeal more to the younger voters than the "conservative" ideals of the Republicans.

And, they did get some degree of advantage, for a while, but it didn't work out they way they hoped, in the long run, because, as you noted, there were a number of 18-21 yr old Republicans, too...

The argument of being sent to war at 18, so you should be able to vote at 18 was just the tactic used.

Note that no earlier generation, who ALSO got "sent to war" at 18 argued for lowering the voting age because of it.

Lowering the voting age to 18 began as a political effort to gain a perceived advantage for, and by the Democrats. The fact that it was actually ethically FAIR that you should have a say in the government that sends you to war, was incidental to their original aims. Being fair, it meant that Republicans could support the idea in good conscience, as well.
 
Sorry photon. I should have added something to indicate sarcasm.

BTW did you know there was a time when service member we not allowed to vote?
 
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I said I can still remember the frustration and what I felt at the time was injustice, but I look at it a bit differently now, because I also recognize how many people in my age group at the time that were dangerously stupid irresponsible idiots, something I did not easily see at the time. And I'm pretty sure it's been that way for every generation, before or since...
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In think the vast majority of us DID do stupid and irresponsible things at that age, especially during that time. Looking back on some of those things, I wonder how I truly didn't die..................but BOY, did we have fun! :D:eek:;)
 
Sorry photon. I should have added something to indicate sarcasm.
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Sarcasm can be hard to notice when its in writing and not face to face.

BTW did you know there was a time when service member we not allowed to vote?
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Sure, when the voting age was 21 and there were people who were 18-21 who were servicemen.
 
The argument of being sent to war at 18, so you should be able to vote at 18 was just the tactic used.

Note that no earlier generation, who ALSO got "sent to war" at 18 argued for lowering the voting age because of it.
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Nevertheless it is a good argument, if people are going to fight in wars they should be able to choose their commander in chief.

And Czechoslovakia had lowered its voting age from 21 to 18 in 1946. Supposedly the issue of lowering the voting age came up in WWII.
 
In think the vast majority of us DID do stupid and irresponsible things at that age, especially during that time. Looking back on some of those things, I wonder how I truly didn't die..................but BOY, did we have fun!
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Might I ask what era you're talking about?
 
There was a time when there was no provision for service members file for an absentee ballot. this also included their wife and family when they were station outside the US.
 
Might I ask what era you're talking about?
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Late 60s -70s........the Age of Aquarius, Haight Ashbury, Vietnam, Jimi Hendrix, and on and on...................unlimited speed limits in the West, drive up liquor stores with an 18 yo drinking age and no open container laws......and spring break in Panama City or Ft. Lauderdale..........................
 
There are reasonable arguments for both sides, but truth be told I don't think that any of us tend to truly mature until closer to the age of 30. Some a little sooner, some a little later, some never... I'm still working on it! :p
 
Somebody mentioned that 14 to 24 year olds are most likely to commit a crime. However, I seem also to recall they are very likely to be victim to it. Those numbers, I imagine, are greatly inflated by gang violence anyways.

Lots of people here are oddly anxious to delay a right when it's another person, and not themselves, being delayed
 
With rights come responsibilities. The government has determined that you are responsible at 18 for certain areas and magically responsible at 21 for others; just as the rental car companies have determined that age to be 25.

If this was a perfect world, the government wouldn't be involved......
 
Late 60s -70s........the Age of Aquarius, Haight Ashbury, Vietnam, Jimi Hendrix, and on and on...................unlimited speed limits in the West, drive up liquor stores with an 18 yo drinking age and no open container laws......and spring break in Panama City or Ft. Lauderdale..........................
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I see. A bit before my time, at least if we're talking about the late teens/early twenties age group. You didn't have some of the technology they have today back then, but it sounded really fun nonetheless.
 
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