after years of shooting 12's...
- Thread starter Slugo
- Start date
I'm just a "pup" - at 61 - compared to some of you old goats....
...but seriously, I'm not giving up any of my 12ga's .....and if you shoot a heavier gun, which I like ..( around 8 1/2 lbs in an Over Under with 30" barrels ) and shoot 1 oz loads in it ( I like them at 1225 fps ) with a load of 8's ... - arthritis in my hands comes and goes with good days and bad days / and a shoulder and bicep that has been completely rebuilt on my shooting shoulder ....a 12ga is still just fine.
When my hands or shoulder are really acting up ....I'll turn to a Benelli semi-auto - in 12ga when I want to shoot sporting ...for a little less recoil even though its an inertia gun .../ and while I have guns in 20ga - the recoil isn't much less because the only difference is I'm shooting 7/8oz loads instead of 1oz loads ....and a lot of shooters like our buddy oneounce on here are shooting a lot of 3/4oz loads in a 12ga ....which is basically a 28ga load.
So getting away from a 12ga ...is not necessarily the way to go. If you go to a lighter gun in a 20ga ( like around 7 lbs ) you will end up with about 20% more recoil out of the 20ga - than shooting the same load in a 12ga that weighs 8 lbs...
Recoil is all about - weight of the gun, how many ounces of shot you shoot and the velocity of the shot cloud.
I understand guys that say they want to carry a 6.5 lb gun vs an 8lb gun in the field all day ...but that's a different issue / that's not about recoil. If I'm going to shoot a lot of shells...( say 250 a day ) ....I sure don't want to shoot a 6.5 lb gun all day long - even with light loads in a 28ga. Besides the swing characteristics on a light gun ...make it real "whippy" ...and the recoil will beat the stuffing out of me.
I have more 12ga O/U's in my safe than any other gague ( I guess there are about 9 of them ) ...and I like my 20ga, my 28ga ...and sometimes even my .410 ( although I swear at it a lot !! ) ...but giving up the 12ga ...with the options you have in commercial shells these days - let alone what you can reload ...makes no sense to me.
I'll stick with a 12ga ....and my 1oz loads ....or drop them down to 7/8oz at 1200 fps ...or try my buddy OneOunces recipe for 3/4 oz loads one of these days...( even if he does put cheerios in them to fill up some space..??? ) ...../ going to a 20ga is not the answer for me .
...but seriously, I'm not giving up any of my 12ga's .....and if you shoot a heavier gun, which I like ..( around 8 1/2 lbs in an Over Under with 30" barrels ) and shoot 1 oz loads in it ( I like them at 1225 fps ) with a load of 8's ... - arthritis in my hands comes and goes with good days and bad days / and a shoulder and bicep that has been completely rebuilt on my shooting shoulder ....a 12ga is still just fine.
When my hands or shoulder are really acting up ....I'll turn to a Benelli semi-auto - in 12ga when I want to shoot sporting ...for a little less recoil even though its an inertia gun .../ and while I have guns in 20ga - the recoil isn't much less because the only difference is I'm shooting 7/8oz loads instead of 1oz loads ....and a lot of shooters like our buddy oneounce on here are shooting a lot of 3/4oz loads in a 12ga ....which is basically a 28ga load.
So getting away from a 12ga ...is not necessarily the way to go. If you go to a lighter gun in a 20ga ( like around 7 lbs ) you will end up with about 20% more recoil out of the 20ga - than shooting the same load in a 12ga that weighs 8 lbs...
Recoil is all about - weight of the gun, how many ounces of shot you shoot and the velocity of the shot cloud.
I understand guys that say they want to carry a 6.5 lb gun vs an 8lb gun in the field all day ...but that's a different issue / that's not about recoil. If I'm going to shoot a lot of shells...( say 250 a day ) ....I sure don't want to shoot a 6.5 lb gun all day long - even with light loads in a 28ga. Besides the swing characteristics on a light gun ...make it real "whippy" ...and the recoil will beat the stuffing out of me.
I have more 12ga O/U's in my safe than any other gague ( I guess there are about 9 of them ) ...and I like my 20ga, my 28ga ...and sometimes even my .410 ( although I swear at it a lot !! ) ...but giving up the 12ga ...with the options you have in commercial shells these days - let alone what you can reload ...makes no sense to me.
I'll stick with a 12ga ....and my 1oz loads ....or drop them down to 7/8oz at 1200 fps ...or try my buddy OneOunces recipe for 3/4 oz loads one of these days...( even if he does put cheerios in them to fill up some space..??? ) ...../ going to a 20ga is not the answer for me .
Last edited:
thinkingman
New member
I have seen this statement made many times and I feel it leaves out an important element....Time.
The time it takes for the payload to reach it's terminal velocity and the burn rate of the powder you use, I BELIEVE, influences felt recoil.(I was wrong once, so I include disclaimers!)
To illustrate the point, think being a passenger in a high performance car and getting to experience 0-60mph in 3 seconds....pretty dramatic...'I could feel my body being pushed back!'
Now get out and get in a car only capable of 0-60 in 12 seconds....same body weight, same terminal velocity.....sensation?....<yawn>
I have been experimenting with different powders in 45acp...some slow, some fast.
Results inconclusive but I believe I'm on to something.
Stock shape and recoil pad dimension will also account for FELT recoil (note: I'm not arguing actual energy generated)
Yes, many folks neglect to consider the event duration when considering the resolution of recoil. After spending spent some time trying loads with the lowest pressures published, IMHO, slower powders result in a slight reduction in "kick" while delivering the same velocity to the payload.
Of course, with slower powders it typically takes more powder to achieve the desired velocity, and powder is sold by weight. It's no wonder that most commercial loads use faster burning powders.
A classic example of a lower kicking shell is the Federal paper target load. With its large capacity hull, slow burning powder, 2-piece wad and low pressure, it delivered a hard hitting load that was a pleasure to shoot. (they smell good, too)
Of course, with slower powders it typically takes more powder to achieve the desired velocity, and powder is sold by weight. It's no wonder that most commercial loads use faster burning powders.
A classic example of a lower kicking shell is the Federal paper target load. With its large capacity hull, slow burning powder, 2-piece wad and low pressure, it delivered a hard hitting load that was a pleasure to shoot. (they smell good, too)
for me it has absolutely nothing to do with recoil, age, illness, or whatever. The enjoyment of shooting a 20 as opposed to a 12 is what I'm all about. The guns are sleeker and more regal than their larger counterparts. The smaller ammo doesn't cost a dime more. Everything about the 20 is better, at least for me. Plus, I love dusting off my shooting buds with a sub-gauge gun. Oh, I'll still shoot my 12's, but not often... 
20 gauge Browning Citori White Lightning. The almost perfect Citori...
20 gauge Browning Citori White Lightning. The almost perfect Citori...
Last edited:
oneounceload
Moderator
Don't you have a Superposed in 20? THAT would be the "ultimate" Browning in 20 gauge..........
Sure, I suppose a time element - for acceleration has an academic place in the discussion on recoil ...but I still maintain that a person can't really tell an incremental difference between the recoil of a slower burning powder vs a faster burning powder - so I'm not convinced they are incrementally different enough to make a difference in the calculation - or in felt recoil.
I know people do believe its a factor ....but I just don't buy into it.
While there is a big difference - based on the weight of the gun, the weight of the shot charge - and the velocity as best we can measure it / or take it from the reloading tables.
Many people grow up - being assured that a 20ga will inherently have less recoil than a 12ga....and it just is not necessarily true if you run the numbers. All the experts will tell you the effects of recoil are cumulative as well ...and in a tournament where you might fire 100 to 200 shells a day for 4 or 5 days in a row ...plus the mental concentration it takes to watch and shoot all those targets...I'm physically tired at the end of the week ...and shooting heavier, or hotter loads, or a lighter gun ...would make it way worse.
I know people do believe its a factor ....but I just don't buy into it.
While there is a big difference - based on the weight of the gun, the weight of the shot charge - and the velocity as best we can measure it / or take it from the reloading tables.
Many people grow up - being assured that a 20ga will inherently have less recoil than a 12ga....and it just is not necessarily true if you run the numbers. All the experts will tell you the effects of recoil are cumulative as well ...and in a tournament where you might fire 100 to 200 shells a day for 4 or 5 days in a row ...plus the mental concentration it takes to watch and shoot all those targets...I'm physically tired at the end of the week ...and shooting heavier, or hotter loads, or a lighter gun ...would make it way worse.
I'm a little skeptical about the slow powder thing, the difference is measured in microseconds and we're not geared for discerning that.
I could use the 20s here more, and may, but they're more bird guns than clays destroyers. I like my SKB, but a few years of heavy use would hurt it badly. And heavy use in that little 6 lb, 2 oz 870 would hurt me.
At the same time, I could get a long barreled 20 gauge O/U with choke tubes and do all of my clay stuff and most of my hunting.
And I may.....
I could use the 20s here more, and may, but they're more bird guns than clays destroyers. I like my SKB, but a few years of heavy use would hurt it badly. And heavy use in that little 6 lb, 2 oz 870 would hurt me.
At the same time, I could get a long barreled 20 gauge O/U with choke tubes and do all of my clay stuff and most of my hunting.
And I may.....
So do I, Slugo. The SKB 600 was made as a field gun, and since SKB is not making guns at the moment, parts and service are chancy. That's the only reason.
There's no reason,IMO, that a 20 gauge 686 for, instance, would break down sooner than a 12 gauge 686. Apples to apples.
There's no reason,IMO, that a 20 gauge 686 for, instance, would break down sooner than a 12 gauge 686. Apples to apples.
oneounceload
Moderator
And while that is absolutely true, skeeters will typically go for the 12 and sub tubes to keep the gun exactly the same - same trigger and stock fit, same balance point and swing dynamics, same weight and handling.
But I also see a lot of folks shooting sporting with a 20 -they aren't the serious competitor types - and since they use 20's for bird hunting, it makes sense from an ammo and logistics aspect. There aren't too many targets the 20 can't stay with
But I also see a lot of folks shooting sporting with a 20 -they aren't the serious competitor types - and since they use 20's for bird hunting, it makes sense from an ammo and logistics aspect. There aren't too many targets the 20 can't stay with
mr kablammo
New member
Who can give us an informed opinion on the Browning A5 or Franchi AL48 in 20 ga? That is my 'someday' shotgun. The BPS in 20 ga usually gets compliments on the skeet range. It just looks and feels right.