Afghanistan
- Thread starter pitz96
- Start date
The problem with Afghanistan is that the bad guys are slowly taking the country back. One third of Afghanistan is controlled by alQueda and the Taliban.
The US got distracted with the Iraq war. US political hacks turned the Afghan fight over to NATO and ignored the need for more US troops there. More US and foreign troops are finally on the way: Hope that they can make up for lost time.
The US got distracted with the Iraq war. US political hacks turned the Afghan fight over to NATO and ignored the need for more US troops there. More US and foreign troops are finally on the way: Hope that they can make up for lost time.
The problem with Afghanistan is the war in Iraq.
We had Bin Laden (the guy who actually did attack us) in a 40 square area and we didn't send in ground troops because the Army, CIA, DoD and the State Dept were in a pissing match and most of the executive dept focused on bringing the war to Iraq.
Bin Laden would be dead, islamic extremism would be growing less quickly, we wouldn't be bankrupting our nation in the desert, oil would be cheaper, Iran would be less powerful, we wouldn't need to bolster Syria against Iran, women in Iraq would still have rights, europe would still be contributing financially, heroin production would be down, etc., etc...
My good friend quit the army after 10 years and 2 tours in Afghanistan, saying we can only kick in doors and blow up the wrong houses for so long before they have good reason to hate us.
We had Bin Laden (the guy who actually did attack us) in a 40 square area and we didn't send in ground troops because the Army, CIA, DoD and the State Dept were in a pissing match and most of the executive dept focused on bringing the war to Iraq.
Bin Laden would be dead, islamic extremism would be growing less quickly, we wouldn't be bankrupting our nation in the desert, oil would be cheaper, Iran would be less powerful, we wouldn't need to bolster Syria against Iran, women in Iraq would still have rights, europe would still be contributing financially, heroin production would be down, etc., etc...
My good friend quit the army after 10 years and 2 tours in Afghanistan, saying we can only kick in doors and blow up the wrong houses for so long before they have good reason to hate us.
Yeah, if we'd just adopt an entirely isolationist foreign policy, we'd be...well, entirely isolated. That worked very well during the years leading up to World War I, World War II, and in the 1990's. Our response to the USS Cole bombing was just right. Thank goodness we didn't irritate the terrorists who bombed the Cole. That wouldn't have been nice at all. And look how well it worked. Ever heard the term, "paper tiger"? Who said that about the United States? His name begins with O. And no, Obama is not the right answer. He's too smart to say that out loud.
And if we'd just stop irritating the terrorists who hate us, they might hate us a little less. Maybe just a little bit less, anyway. Perhaps they'd bomb a few fewer American targets. Or maybe they'd use smaller bombs.
Ah, the armchair generals are in full swing here, replete with John Kerry talking points. We've been distracted by Iraq. We could have caught Osama if we'd just tried a little harder. What we should have done was just sent John Kerry over there with an M-60; he would have found that Osama and taken him out all by himself. Golly, those troops we have over in Afghanistan, they are spending way too much time sun tanning and eating steak.
And if we'd just stop irritating the terrorists who hate us, they might hate us a little less. Maybe just a little bit less, anyway. Perhaps they'd bomb a few fewer American targets. Or maybe they'd use smaller bombs.
Ah, the armchair generals are in full swing here, replete with John Kerry talking points. We've been distracted by Iraq. We could have caught Osama if we'd just tried a little harder. What we should have done was just sent John Kerry over there with an M-60; he would have found that Osama and taken him out all by himself. Golly, those troops we have over in Afghanistan, they are spending way too much time sun tanning and eating steak.
So what are you saying that we should just let them get away with the killing of americans.. are you serious? WE DONT LET THAT STAND! You wouldnt be saying that if someone you knew was killed in the 9/11 attacks america is better than that.
If you let someone get away an act of terror with out hunting them down they do nothing but increase you wanna talk about the uss cole... what happened after that.. YOU REMEMBER THOSE TOWN TOWER THINGYS THAT THE PLANES WITH ALL THE PEOPLE FLEW INTO?
toybox99615
New member
at some point it is strictly revenge not retaliation
"So what are you saying that we should just let them get away with the killing of americans.. are you serious? WE DONT LET THAT STAND! You wouldnt be saying that if someone you knew was killed in the 9/11 attacks america is better than that" oneSoneK
When does retaliation become strictly revenge. We have kill more known terrorist than we have counted. We have taken offencive action against the terrorist to retaliate for 9/11 for over five years. How long is retaliation before it becomes nothing but revenge?
Given the talking points of some who say we stay in the ME until we have avenged all the deaths on 9/11 is a rather obscure reason to be there forever. Using the same logic we should still be fighting those who sank the USS Maine and led the US into the Spanish-American War in 1898. We are no longer fighting the SA war becasue at some point it ended and we went on with our lives.
"So what are you saying that we should just let them get away with the killing of americans.. are you serious? WE DONT LET THAT STAND! You wouldnt be saying that if someone you knew was killed in the 9/11 attacks america is better than that" oneSoneK
When does retaliation become strictly revenge. We have kill more known terrorist than we have counted. We have taken offencive action against the terrorist to retaliate for 9/11 for over five years. How long is retaliation before it becomes nothing but revenge?
Given the talking points of some who say we stay in the ME until we have avenged all the deaths on 9/11 is a rather obscure reason to be there forever. Using the same logic we should still be fighting those who sank the USS Maine and led the US into the Spanish-American War in 1898. We are no longer fighting the SA war becasue at some point it ended and we went on with our lives.
Benonymous
New member
No withdrawal.
The US won't be withdrawing from Iraq any time soon. The cold hard reality of the matter is that oil production would suffer in Iraq if the Brits and Americans weren't there running it. The military is needed to police the situation and keep the oil production facilities safe.
If the US pulled out of Iraq now, the lack of an effective government/police/military would see the place plunge into civil war. Any supply-side jitters in the world supply will send the crude prices soaring and economies will be damaged/destroyed.
We're at a real crossroads with this situation. While I deplore the situation in Iraq and believe that the US and Allies acted illegally by invading the country, we're now in a fork because of the economic implications.
Afghanistan is a similar story, just replace oil with gas.
The US won't be withdrawing from Iraq any time soon. The cold hard reality of the matter is that oil production would suffer in Iraq if the Brits and Americans weren't there running it. The military is needed to police the situation and keep the oil production facilities safe.
If the US pulled out of Iraq now, the lack of an effective government/police/military would see the place plunge into civil war. Any supply-side jitters in the world supply will send the crude prices soaring and economies will be damaged/destroyed.
We're at a real crossroads with this situation. While I deplore the situation in Iraq and believe that the US and Allies acted illegally by invading the country, we're now in a fork because of the economic implications.
Afghanistan is a similar story, just replace oil with gas.
BreacherUp!
New member
It's not even a contest in Afghanistan. We are slaughering them whole sale. The provinces near the Paki borders, like Helmond will always be a battle ground b/c 99% of the world's opium comes from there. Opium means weapons. Meched up units do not do well. But foot mobile troops with proper CAS win the fight, almost always. Don't let the media fool you.
LightningJoe
New member
Don't underestimate the value of revenge. We will fight until our enemies surrender or they are all dead. These particular enemies have been fighting us since 1979. Until 2001, we did nothing at all. Now we are fighting back. That's good. These particular enemies will fight us until we surrender or we are all dead.
There is no middle way in this long war. Our existence is unacceptable to this enemy. They will not stop fighting us until we are dead, converted, or reduced to dhimmitude. Or until they are dead or so demoralized that they change their goals.
At the moment, they're still alive and they haven't changed their goals. And so we fight.
RedneckFur
New member
It wasn't Iraq.
We dont have an obligation to anyone but ourselves. If your neighbor is robbed, do you feel you were responsible for not stopping the theif?
I'm suprised this thread hasnt been locked yet, but i sense the moderator hammer of doom looming overhead.
[QUOTEQuote:
What was 9/11
It wasn't Iraq.
Quote:
The world police or not we as a free country and the most powerful nation on earth have an obligation to bring the same to those who cant do it themself...
We dont have an obligation to anyone but ourselves. If your neighbor is robbed, do you feel you were responsible for not stopping the theif?
][/QUOTE]
IRAQ stood up and said yea we support those who did it afgan where binladen planned the attacks said yeah we did it saudi denounced it what would attacking saudi do? and let me ask yall this what do you think will happen when we pull our troops out how will that make us look? as soon as were out we are going to be attacked again and then where will yall be?? wanting revenge and justice for those killed thats what make us great we look out for our own no matter what you finish the job.
SEMPER FIDELIS means always faithful.. The creed of a united states MARINE.. we're always faithful to our government and way of life thats what we're there to preserve.
You would like your quality of life if people kept blowing stuff up... the local walmart...shopping mall....your kids schoolbus? how would you like it?
What was 9/11
It wasn't Iraq.
Quote:
The world police or not we as a free country and the most powerful nation on earth have an obligation to bring the same to those who cant do it themself...
We dont have an obligation to anyone but ourselves. If your neighbor is robbed, do you feel you were responsible for not stopping the theif?
][/QUOTE]
IRAQ stood up and said yea we support those who did it afgan where binladen planned the attacks said yeah we did it saudi denounced it what would attacking saudi do? and let me ask yall this what do you think will happen when we pull our troops out how will that make us look? as soon as were out we are going to be attacked again and then where will yall be?? wanting revenge and justice for those killed thats what make us great we look out for our own no matter what you finish the job.
SEMPER FIDELIS means always faithful.. The creed of a united states MARINE.. we're always faithful to our government and way of life thats what we're there to preserve.
You would like your quality of life if people kept blowing stuff up... the local walmart...shopping mall....your kids schoolbus? how would you like it?
toybox99615
New member
retaliation against attacks
Take action is what I would expect if our shopping centers were being blown up. But they are not being blown up. The death and destruction is happening by Iraqi insurgents against other Iraqis with American caught in the cross fire.
Were the bombings happening in America I'd hate to be waiting for some of the Iraqis to show up and aide in our defence. For we know the response would be. They don't have any reason to come help Americans in American: It's not their country to defend. The bombings we are fearful of our the actions of non-Americans coming hear. Not the actions of American fighting other Americans.
Take action is what I would expect if our shopping centers were being blown up. But they are not being blown up. The death and destruction is happening by Iraqi insurgents against other Iraqis with American caught in the cross fire.
Were the bombings happening in America I'd hate to be waiting for some of the Iraqis to show up and aide in our defence. For we know the response would be. They don't have any reason to come help Americans in American: It's not their country to defend. The bombings we are fearful of our the actions of non-Americans coming hear. Not the actions of American fighting other Americans.
Benonymous
New member
Military occupation = failiure
LightningJoe, I won't quote all of your post but know this. It is impossible to win an occupation unless you are prepared to start moving in your own civilians and start out-breeding the locals. Have a quick glance through the history books and show me a lasting occupation achieved solely by the military. You won't find one. not even the Romans or Napoleon could pull it off.
True occupation success comes with civilians. China in Tibet, Jews in Palestine, Europeans in Australia among numerous examples. That's a successful occupation.
In Iraq and Afghanistan the locals have got all the time in the world to use their meagre resources to fight. Unlike the USA where millions of dollars a day are expended on this campaign. The locals will win, eventually, they've got nowhere else to go and nothing better to do when their country is in ruins and there is little or no employment. The US will depart when the gouts of money pumping into the operation kill the economy (we're on the way).
So when are you getting on a plane with your wife and kids to go live in Basra?
Thought so....
LightningJoe, I won't quote all of your post but know this. It is impossible to win an occupation unless you are prepared to start moving in your own civilians and start out-breeding the locals. Have a quick glance through the history books and show me a lasting occupation achieved solely by the military. You won't find one. not even the Romans or Napoleon could pull it off.
True occupation success comes with civilians. China in Tibet, Jews in Palestine, Europeans in Australia among numerous examples. That's a successful occupation.
In Iraq and Afghanistan the locals have got all the time in the world to use their meagre resources to fight. Unlike the USA where millions of dollars a day are expended on this campaign. The locals will win, eventually, they've got nowhere else to go and nothing better to do when their country is in ruins and there is little or no employment. The US will depart when the gouts of money pumping into the operation kill the economy (we're on the way).
So when are you getting on a plane with your wife and kids to go live in Basra?
Thought so....