Afghanistan

P

pitz96

New member
I heard part of Bush's speech not long ago about wanting more NATO troops sent to Afghanistan, to insure our "success" there. Driving out the taliban seems to be a major goal, but that seems like trying to drive Christian fundamentalists out of the American South.

There was an interview on CNN a few days ago with a woman journalist who
wrote a story about her time with a group of US soldiers in Afghanistan, where they have been trying to pacify a region of very xenophobic Wahabi
Muslim villagers who persist in firing on them from houses. It seems that the troops getting disgusted with their commander who must advise restraint in order not to further alienate the locals. Promising material help, bringing progress, etc. hold no water with the villagers, who say they want neither progress nor help, they just want Americans to GO AWAY!

The Russians tried to drag the Afghanis into the modern secular world
and failed miserably. The British didn't have any luck there either, in the early 1900's. It's said that those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it...but somehow it's always "different this time", and hope seems to spring eternal.
 
You were doing fine until this little gem. This might get interesting, I will get the pop corn. Your are off to a real fine start.

but that seems like trying to drive Christian fundamentalists out of the American South.
Click to expand...
 
Not wanting to sound like an idiot, decided to do a google search and do a bit of research instead of shooting from the hip. Just wanted a little history on Afganistan. The top 5 contenders from Google were,
1)The Taliban, from Infoplease.com
2)Taliban Timeline, from Infoplease.com
3)History of the Taliban, from Oprah.com, (Complete with bra ads running across the top of the screen.)
4)History of Afganistan since 1992, from Wikepedia.org
5)Amazon.com, History Channel Declassified - The Taliban (2007) (Not Rated), $21.99, $3.99 used.
For all you folks with children in school, who will be trying to use the internet for school homework, you have my deepest sympathy. I'm sorry for side tracking the thread, it started out so nice. Think I'll get some popcorn and just watch for now.
 
I come from a Military back ground! I have two son's in the Army , both have been there or Iraq! I use to feel we have been doing the right thing. I am more and more believing we are just spinning our wheels. They have been killing each other since before Jesus was born. They don't seem to want to end the crap.


It may be time for us to start taking care of ourselves a little more: I really hope it never comes to this but it may, and may soon!

WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO TURN ON THE TV AND HEAR ANY U.S. PRESIDENT, DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN GIVE THE FOLLOWING SPEECH?

My Fellow Americans: As you all know, the defeat of the Iraq regime has been completed.

Since congress does not want to spend any more money on this war, our mission in Iraq is complete.

This morning I gave the order for a complete removal of all American forces from Iraq This action will be complete within 30 days. It is now time to begin the reckoning.


Before me, I have two lists. One list contains the names of countries which have stood by our side during the Iraq conflict. This list is short . The United Kingdom , Spain , Bulgaria , Australia , and Poland are some of the countries listed there.

The other list contains everyone not on the first list. Most of the world's
nations are on that list. My press secretary will be distributing copies of both
lists later this evening.

Let me start by saying that effective immediately, foreign aid to those nations on List 2 ceases immediately and indefinitely. The money saved during the first year alone will pretty much pay for the costs of the Iraqi war.

THEN EVERY YEAR THERE AFTER IT'll GO TO OUR SOCIAL SECURITY SYSTEM SO IT WONT GO BROKE IN 20 YEARS.

The American people are no longer going to pour money into third world Hellholes and watch those government leaders grow fat on corruption.

Need help with a famine ? Wrestling with an epidemic? Call France .

In the future, together with Congress, I will work to redirect this money toward solving the vexing social problems we still have at home . On that note, a word to terrorist organizations. Screw with us and we will hunt you down and eliminate you and all your friends from the face of the earth.

Thirsting for a gutsy country to terrorize? Try France or maybe China .

I am ordering the immediate severing of diplomatic relations with France , Germany , and Russia . Thanks for all your help, comrades. We are retiring from NATO as well. Bonne chanc e, mez amies.

I have instructed the Mayor of New York City to begin towing the many UN diplomatic vehicles located in Manhattan with more than two unpaid parking tic kets to siteswhere those vehicles will be stripped, shredded and crushed. I don't care about whatever treaty pertains to this. You creeps have tens of thousands of unpaid tickets. Pay those tickets tomorrow or watch your precious Ben zes, Beamers and limos be turned over to some of the finest chop shops in the world. I love New York

A special note to our neighbors. Since we are likely to be
seeing a lot more of each other, you folks might want to try not pissing us off for a change.

Mexico is also on List 2 its president and his entire corrupt government really
need an attitude adjustment. I will have a couple extra thousand tanks and infantry divisions sitting around. Guess where I am going to put 'em? Yep, border security.

Oh, by the way, the United States is abrogating the NAFTA treaty - starting now.

We are tired of the one-way highway. Immediately, we'll be drilling for oil
in Alaska - which will take care of this country's oil needs for decades to
come. If you're an environmentalist who opposes this decision, I refer you to
List 2 above: pick a country and move there.

It is time for America to focus on its own welfare and its own citizens. Some will accuse us of isolationism. I answer them by saying, 'darn tootin.'

Nearly a century of trying to help folks live a decent life around the world has
only earned us the undying enmity of just about everyone on the planet. It is time to eliminate hunger in America It is time to eliminate home lessness in America . To the nations on List 1, a final thought. Thank you guys. We owe you and we won't forget.

To the nations on List 2, a final thought: You might want to learn to speak Arabic.

God bless America . Thank you and good night.

If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English, thank a
soldier .
 
But you can only back up so far!
Click to expand...

I agree. SO let me ask you this... you see the america as the most powerful nation correct? much like the police? now i believe america needs to invest more in our intrests than around the world but let me ask you this.. what if the police stopped careing about the good people in the bad "hoods" ? what if they stopped coming to help just because they were afraid of getting hurt...
a war is just that.. we lose people... i personally have lost friends to iraq.. show me a good way to fight a war? show me a way where no one on our side dies? letting the innocent die is the same as killing them ourselfs

And in the military its about the man next to you.. so they die in vain is that it? the truth is it was fumbled a bit but who do we blame for that?
now who do we take it out on? the soliders dont deserve that. you dont stop until the job is done. any man who cant be depened on steady isnt worth having around. as far as russia and the other countries dont compare us to them. if they had been there for the right reason who knows what might have happened. the bottom line is they hit first after 9/11 would anyone have dared put up a post like this.. we say we wont forget but what happens when a little time goes buy....

And let me finish with this..If we should haved learned anything from history its this.. There will always be someone to fight, no matter what happens with this conflict when my son is grown there will be someone else tring to bring terror to this great nation. dont be so quick to leave finish the job.
 
The thing is, OneSonek, we are not the worlds police. We are a nation just like they are. Unless another country attacks or injures us, we have little right to interfere with them, much less take over their country and insert our own flavor of goverment.
 
Bush vowed to

send more troops to Afghanistan next year. After he is out of office. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/04/AR2008040403432.html.. Our lame duck president has made a commitment on behalf of our next president. Nice that Dubya has made another decision on how things will be after he leaves office.

Meanwhile it sure seems we are not going to reduce any military involvement in the ME. We will be there until the US is a line in history books as another failed country. Bush and his associated don't seem to care how much this is costing, when it will end or what affect it will have as we turn everything we have into these efforts: dollars and troops. Sure sounds like the leadership of the Chinese under Mao more than America doesn't it.
 
Sure sounds like the leadership of the Chinese under Mao more than America doesn't it.
Click to expand...

Give me a break. President Bush is not Hitler, and he's not Mao. If he were, you wouldn't be writing this silly stuff on the internet. Bush derangement syndrome at it's best!
 
They have been killing each other since before Jesus was born. They don't seem to want to end the crap.
Click to expand...


Agree, I'm a vet however we cannot continue to be the world police force, simply in terms of economics alone it is silly, we have over 700 bases world wide and we continue to build more, we outsource anything possible and we continue to import millions of poor people from around the world. Down size out of country bases and build others in the southwest securing our borders and ports, rebuild some manufacturing and perhaps that way we can lead people throughout the world by example rather then by force.

The idea of being kind but carry a big stick appeals to me.;)
 
The use of US military to police the world has cost us hugely and allowed the other countries pay for the inefficiencies to "Socialize" much of their economy. I don't know which is worse, trying to protect the world that won't protect themselves or letting a basically evil system of government overtake the countries that don't need to use their national efforts to protect themselves anymore.
 
Unless another country attacks or injures us, we have little right to interfere with them, much less take over their country and insert our own flavor of goverment.
Click to expand...

What was 9/11..

The world police or not we as a free country and the most powerful nation on earth have an obligation to bring the same to those who cant do it themself...

" The only thing necessary for the triumph evil is for good men to do nothing"

dont sit there and say that we shouldnt help people when genicide and famine are things that can be stopped. thats what seperates us from them.
 
dont sit there and say that we shouldnt help people when genicide and famine are things that can be stopped. thats what seperates us from them.
Click to expand...

Isn't that the mission of the UN? Let them deal with the world problems. One nation can not pacify the world without destroying itself. That is not the mission of the country. We would be far better off if we were a neutral country, much like the founding founders wanted.

The world police or not we as a free country and the most powerful nation on earth have an obligation to bring the same to those who cant do it themself...
Click to expand...

Pretty naive aren't you. You actually buy the line that we are here to save the world for itself? That is the last thing we are trying to do, since this country has supported more dictatorship than any other country. We only act when it benefits the US in some monetary way. Otherwise why haven't we helped in Darfur, Rwanda, and other places. Simple answer is that those place have no resources or strategic value to us.
 
then what dose that say about us..

America isnt perfect nor do we always do the right thing but we do stand for something that is pure and good so how can we say that we shouldnt help. i agree doing the right thing isnt always the right thing but your telling me we should sit and watch people die, while we can sit here and openly criticize our government when there are places around the world where you and your whole family could be killed for doing what we do freely and often....

As long as we can help we should.. and when we cant anymore then we should stop but not until that time..

honestly everyone what would we do if we lived in a place where we couldnt even provide enough food for our children.. where we could be murdered for no reason and nothing would be said where rape and dismemberment of our kids were a common thing???

we would pray that god send us help..
 
You were doing fine until this little gem. This might get interesting, I will get the pop corn. Your are off to a real fine start.
Quote:
but that seems like trying to drive Christian fundamentalists out of the American South.
Click to expand...

It seems like a good analogy to me. Many people in the American south are conservative Christians, so they would naturally object if Christian fundamentalists were persecuted by outsiders. Most people in Afghanistan are strict Muslims, as are the taliban. Western outsiders are likely more hated by average Afghanis than the taliban, so if they want to drive anyone out, you can imagine who it is.

Rather than invading and occupying (forever?) countries like Iraq and even Afghanistan, wouldn't it make more sense to secure our own country, police the borders, and check out anyone coming into the country? Just punishing everyone in Afghanistan, Iraq, and probably Iran isn't going to eliminate every terrorist in the world with a grudge against the US, and it doesn't take all that many to cause big trouble, if they can get into the country. The money and manpower we're using abroad could do a lot to beef us our defenses at home. I can't believe how we just let people run over the southern border, in droves, totally unveted.
 
Most of the details don't really matter. Here's the big picture as I perceive it:


Having been attacked, we needed a way to fight our enemy. OBL et al aren't a nation so it was hard to find a venue in which to use our military against them. The good news was that two actual countries were stupid enough to stand up and offer to fight us. This gave us a place to go and fight somebody who served as a good approximation of our 9/11 attackers. Even better, the terrorists and their sponsors identified with, supported, and sent personnel to Iraq to fight us; nothing could suit us better because that was who we actually wanted to fight.


Americans must fight their enemies. It is inconceivable for us to respond to an attack by just improving airline security, etc. Even if we could turn Iraq/Afganistan into Bangladesh, it wouldn't be worth it, but it doesn't matter. The important thing is these places give us the opportunity to put our hand on our enemy's throat. That's why we fight. Maybe we'll even win. But the need to fight is reason enough.
 
Are we the worlds police? How many countries have come to us pleading for help either economically or militarilly. Don't understand why everybody thinks that just because the U.S. goes into another country for one reason or another, it's means we're trying to make sure they believe the way we do. Sorry, I don't see anybody preaching Chrisianity over in Iraq. I do see a form of democracy taking over in Vietnam, but I don't think we left it there when we took off in the choppers back in '75. No, we're not the worlds police, not quite sure where we fit in, but we have to keep it up. The world needs us.
 
Ill agree that america needs to take a closer look at our own but just because we do that dosent mean that we need to stop helping those in need.

Befor my son was born I was the first to stand and say " KILL em all let god sort em out" but now i can understand the value of life. Watching a human being grow and learn its pure and who are we to say that its ok for someone to take that away just because he is not one of us.. in all honesty im torn because i want to kill em all but i know its not the right thing to do and leaving a person to die is the same as killing them.

Afghanistan, Iraq, and probably Iran isn't going to eliminate every terrorist in the world with a grudge against the US,
Click to expand...

But would you agree that if you cut the head the body will fall?
places like that are safe haven's for the people who planned 9/11 and when we make it unsafe ther they go somewhere else but this time insted of "come in my friend" they say "to much trouble" then what?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top