Advice on NY Handgun Application Please

Gone Shootin said:
The thing that gets me the most is that you have to actually buy the handgun, have it held at an FFL and submit the serial # on the application.

It won't be unless there's a reason. I agree, that's a stupid requirement and one not followed by most counties but where it is required the counties generally approve all permits unless there is good cause not to... after you jump through the hoops.

The most maddening thing about NY is that even though permits are available in almost all counties, it is EXACTLY county specific. If I had lived 2 miles up the road when I got my permit it would have taken 3 weeks instead of 5 months and been issued by DEFAULT as unrestricted. Same thing with my uncle. He's like 1/2 mile from the county line but he lives in a county that DOES NOT issue unrestricted permits (tompkins). If he were 1/2 mile north, he'd be in cortland county and unrestricted is the default. Stupid part is that it's not like you can't carry in tompkins county on a cortland permit, so what are they accomplishing?

Besides, what is the logic in their reasoning? "We trust you enough to let you own a handgun but we DON'T trust you enough to let you carry it concealed but we DO trust you enough to NOT carry it concealed just because we tell you so."

Perfect logic chain, right there.:rolleyes:

The good thing about NY is that, once you get a permit, most of the laws are AT LEAST as "gun friendly" as the traditional "gun friendly" states, and even more so in many cases.

At one time we considered retiring out that way...until I read NYS gun law...I would already be in jail for too many pistols (can't have over 5), can't bring any into the state unless you have a permit..bla-bla.

The 5 handgun part is not actually true. There is something in the law that reads along those lines but it's not actually true. I know many people with FAR more than 5 handguns.
 
You are exactly right. They issue you a "carry concealed" permit, but hope you won't carry concealed unless going hunting or target shooting.

It is totally legal to carry on a "restricted" permit as there's no such animal in the PL400. The only two types defined in PL400 are "carry concealed" and "premises" permits. So they can't charge someone criminally for carrying on a "restricted" CC permit. They can, however, suspend or revoke your permit if you are caught carrying outside of restrictions. This system is ridiculous.

And yes, someone in Putnam gets an unrestricted permit while a person with the same credentials in Westchester gets a restricted one. Everything is up to the judge and is completely arbitrary. Whatever happened to equal protection?

I can't wait for a Kachasky case to get to the Supreme Court. I'm positive the "just cause" clause will be struck down and we will become a shall-issue state. Just a couple of more years, just a couple of years...
 
I saw the 5 handgun thing when reading the NYS penal code. That there may be exemptions is not surprising.

I am sure that I would have checked it out before moving to NYS if we had decided to do that. One of my wife's brothers is married to a NY county prosecuter, I'm sure she would know the ins and outs.
 
I saw the 5 handgun thing when reading the NYS penal code. That there may be exemptions is not surprising.

The crime is the exemption. Possessing THREE or more firearms is a crime (Criminal Possession 3rd Dg) if the person is ALREADY committing the crime of 4th degree possession AND has 3 or more firearms in their possession. The code is as follows:

265.02 Criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree.
A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree when:
(1) Such person commits the crime of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree
as defined in subdivision one, two, three or five of section 265.01, and has been previously convicted of any crime; or
(2) Such person possesses any explosive or incendiary bomb, bombshell, firearm silencer, machine-gun or any other firearm or weapon simulating a machine-gun and which is adaptable for such use; or
(3) Such person knowingly possesses a machine-gun, firearm, rifle or shotgun which has been defaced for the purpose of concealment or prevention of the detection of a crime or misrepresenting the identity of such machine-gun, firearm, rifle or shotgun; or
(5) (i) Such person possesses three or more firearms; or (ii) such person possesses a firearm and has been previously convicted of a felony or a class A misdemeanor defined in this chapter within the five years immediately preceding the commission of the offense and such possession did not take place in the person's home or place of business; or
(6) Such person knowingly possesses any disguised gun; or
(7) Such person possesses an assault weapon; or
(8) Such person possesses a large capacity ammunition feeding device.
Criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree is a class D felony.
 
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The form in triplicate needs to be notarized on the bottom where it says "Jurat". Where it says "officer of State", the notary should write "Notary Public". And I actually was told by the Clerk that the form needs to be notarized.

I'm glad I read this post this week. My wife and I have an appointment to submit our permit in Westchester Cty, NY tomorrow. We got all the references, took the course, had everything notarized except the form in triplicate, which we assumed, because it said "officer of State" that someone at the clerk's office would do it after taking fingerprints. After reading this and confirming with the clerk's office that we do indeed need a notary to do this, we have gotten a neighbor who is a notary to do it for us tonight.

I will be glad after the paperwork is finally submitted. This forum and others (especially the NYFirearms forum for NY) have been invaluable in getting info about the permit process that the state and county DO NOT PROVIDE, and one has to assume that it is on purpose, as is the whole convoluted process to make it as difficult as possible to obtain a permit. My wife and I live very close to Blue Mountain range and have been talking about going to shoot there for 10+ years and have been put off by the permit process until now. I'm sure that is the only purpose of many of the arbitrary and useless rules required to submit the permit (like buying a gun which you can't handle).

End rant. Thanks again to the great info from these forums.
 
Well, Sir, I'm glad I was able to help. That what these forums are for. We need every last bit of info to fight though the red tape and bureaucracy.

Are you the guy that was able to get the appointment moved up? I called for an appointment before you and got the end of December date. People told me that when there's a cancellation the Clerk calls people on the list and offers them an earlier appointment. Hasn't happened to me yet, but I'm hopeful. I just have to purchase a handgun to be completely ready.

Good luck with the interview. Please report back on how in went.
 
Submitted our application yesterday, Westchester NY

My wife and I submitted our applications yesterday. The two detectives who took each of our permits were both very pleasant and very helpful. Despite all the gotchas I've noted from forum posts, there were still a few things that we missed. Luckily, one of the detectives was a notary and notarized a couple of additional items for us. Two things to note for anyone applying in Westchester, at least, and maybe NYS wide. For question 11, which asks if you've taken any firearm instruction I answered "Yes" since I did and its required. The instructions say "If you answer 'yes' to any question you need to include a letter explaining'. Most of the other questions refer to criminal record or mental problems, so I assumed the instructions were referring to those and that for #11 my including the certificate from the NRA Basic Safety Course was sufficient. But I was told that they did, indeed, need a letter along the lines of:

To Whom it May Concern,

In regards to question 11, I have completed the NRA Basic Safety Course and have included a copy of the certificate with the permit application materials.

Signed, dated and notarized.

(Now the detective did notarize it for us, but that may have been just extra caution on his part, because I don't recall in the instructions that any of the letters of explanation had to be notarized, but since you're having to get everything else notarized you may as well get your letter notarized as well).


The second minor glitch was that the gun we were required to purchase and include on the permit only had my name on the bill of sale. My wife and I both included the same gun on our permit apps. So I had to write another letter for my wife's permit app saying:

To Whom It May Concern,

My wife, xxxxx, and I, xxxxx share full possession of the Ruger xxxxx, serial # xxxxx.

Signed, dated and notarized.

On amendments for future gun purchases either a similar letter needs to be included or more simply I can have the bill of sale in both our names when I purchase the gun. Had I the foresight to put my wife's name on the order when I bought the gun, the letter wouldn't have been needed.

They also asked if we wanted the hunting addendum letter, similar to the target shooting addendum letter which they included with the original materials. We don't really intend to hunt, you can't in Westchester anyway, and we're more interested in target/sport shooting and HD. But to be complete, we said sure, and filled it out and the detective notarized us for it. If you are interested though, you should ask for this form when you get your application. One, just so you have it when you go and two, because I don't think you can depend on one of the detectives being a notary, we just lucked out.

Other than that the entire thing took 1/2 hr for the both of us, and as I said the detectives were very helpful. My wife forgot to sign one of the triplicate forms, which the det. didn't catch until after we had left. So he called my wife on her cell# to tell her. We hadn't gotten in our car yet, but we had left the building and since it was after 5:00pm the building was closed. So the det. came down to meet us so she could sign the form.

So you know what to expect (and again this is for Westchester, other counties certainly differ), here is a brief description of what happens.

You arrive and tell them you're there for your permit appointment.

They take your money order first. Then they take the rest of your application materials.

They staple a copy of the checklist (which is included with the instructions you got with the application) to a folder.

They then go through each of the items on the checklist and check to see that you have it.

They make copies of your passport (or whatever items you brought to prove citizenship) and proof of residency and give the originals back.

After a brief scan to make sure all forms are filled out, signed and notarized as required, they take your photo and fingerprints.

And that's it. They told us to expect something from them in 4-6 months.

I hope this helps anyone else trying to get a permit in Westchester.
 
@jhudock:

Thanks very much for your detailed description of what you went through. That's great info about the additional letters needed. And like you, i was helped out by batjka and his tip about needing the triplicate forms notarized. That definitely wasn't clear on the forms.

Anyway - it sounds like it wasn't too painful overall - once all the hoops have been jumped through. I was under the impression that the applicant would meet one-onone with a judge - who would conduct an interview - about who the applicant is and why they'd want a handgun. It's nice to hear that's not a part of it.

Good luck with the application - i hope it goes quickly for you.
 
good luck and you learn that patience is a virtue when dealing
with all matters related to 2A in NY

you should stay in contact with your references, who will be contacted
by the permit people....

you have to....uh...remind them to send in the reference in a timely fashion

sometimes, the letter writer will put off the odious task, which can make
an already slow process even slower

it may come to actually bothering them to remember to write, but it is
something you have to do to move it all along

no use bugging any other people involved in the process....your letter writers
are the only ones you have any influence on....so stay in touch with
them....have them contact you when they are contacted and when they
mail the letter....
 
great thread. i also live in westchester and have for about 13 years now. i started looking to get my permit back in 05, but since I dont work in westchester and I dont really socialize outside of work much I couldnt get the required westchester references. It wasnt until recently that I found out that they didnt "have" to be westchester residents that I got started on my process again. unfortunately i got all my "old" paperwork put together only to find out they changed the forms so I had to get all new paperwork and start over. what a large pain in the ass they make it in westchester. my appointment is in march (4 months from when I called). All i have to do now is buy the gun and input the information on the form and I am ready. its encouraging to read how the process went in this thread so thanks for the info.
 
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