Active Shooter Drills Traumatizing Kids

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FireForged said:
How did that project involve school shield?
It didn't. I didn't say it did. It was years before Sandy Hook or School Shield. I recounted that to refute the idea that just asking "a local architect" is assurance of getting well-thought out security ideas.

FireForged said:
If they are limiting school shield to LEO ( 3+ years experience and up), its likely because the skill set which is paramount to the program is relative to LE training, knowledge, experience and not construction.
That attitude is the problem. You have perhaps encountered the expression, "When the only tool you have is a hammer, the whole world is a nail." There's a LOT more to providing schools with well-conceived, overall security plans and protocols than just what a cop (or a couple of cops) can bring to the table.
 
It didn't. I didn't say it did. It was years before Sandy Hook or School Shield. I recounted that to refute the idea that just asking "a local architect" is assurance of getting well-thought out security ideas.

I was not suggesting that the user ask the architect about security issues. Building a facility with specialized requirements requires people to work in concert with other professionals. I was simply highlighting the possibility that another individual consulting on how to build the school is probably not what is predominately needed. If it were, its membership would likely include a majority of architects.

That attitude is the problem. You have perhaps encountered the expression, "When the only tool you have is a hammer, the whole world is a nail." There's a LOT more to providing schools with well-conceived, overall security plans and protocols than just what a cop (or a couple of cops) can bring to the table.

If you need a hammer and the project is about issues that are indicative of hammers and hammer like implements, you don't bring a shovel.
 
FireForged said:
I was not suggesting that the user ask the architect about security issues.
Why not? Security is one of the major design parameters that an architect should be addressing in the design of a school. Security is integrally related to things like ingress provisions, egress provisions, materials choices, hardware selection and specification, compartmentation, communications, code compliance, and more. There's a lot more to a comprehensive security plan than just asking the cops what their SWAT team plan is.
 
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AB, how much training does an architect have in security issues? Is it a routine part of their schooling? And thus is it something that a licensed architect should reasonably be expected to be cognizant of in their designs for facilities such as schools?
 
TailGator said:
AB, how much training does an architect have in security issues? Is it a routine part of their schooling? And thus is it something that a licensed architect should reasonably be expected to be cognizant of in their designs for facilities such as schools?
I graduated from architecture school 47 years ago. Back then, the curriculum didn't even mention security, and I doubt that it does today. It also wasn't addressed in the licensing exam, and I doubt that it is today.

That said, just as a doctor is expected to develop expertise beyond his M.D. degree to engage in whatever specialty he/she chooses, an architect is also expected to know about factors affecting his/her projects. The specific knowledge required for designing schools is different from that required for hospitals, or prisons, or factories, or research laboratories.

That's why most clients hire larger firms for all but very small projects. When a school board hires "an architect" to design a school, they aren't really hiring "an" architect. They're hiring a firm. I've worked for two firms that do a lot of schools. There were about 50 people in each firm, with several licensed architects in each firm who pretty much specialized in just schools. That's a small firm by national standards. For comparison, Gensler has (I think) over 6,000 employees, in multiple offices around the country. I currently work for a mid-size A/E (architecture/engineering) firm that has about 500 employees spread over five regional offices.

But, even then, there's the question of priorities. Most architecture schools stress design as THE item of paramount importance. In the example I cited of the glass sidelights next to the classroom doors, even after it was pointed out that the sidelights created a security problem the lead architect for the project wanted to keep it because he liked it. He said some clap-trap about creating a "sense of openness and transparency" in the classrooms.

Nonsense. This is the same high school I attended. The classrooms all had windows, and the new classrooms have windows. The classrooms in the old wings of the school, when I was there, didn't have glass sidelights, and nobody cared. Most of the teachers left the door to the corridor open anyway, which would have (a) blocked the sidelight, and (b) left a larger opening than the glass anyway.

Fast forward, and I have attended adult ed classes in those new classrooms with the glass sidelights. I can speak with certainty only for myself, but I think I'm safe in saying that most (if not all) the students in my adult ed classes weren't aware of the sidelights and didn't spend any time looking out through them into the corridor. In other words, they created a security vulnerability while providing no actual, quantifiable benefit. They just satisfied the designer's preconception of what he thought was a great idea. And, unfortunately, the school board was made up of people who weren't really committed to security, they were only committed to saying they were committed to security. None of the members bothered to educate themselves on the topic, they completely delegated it to the architects. In a sane world, one might hope that "But I like it" would not be sufficient reason for building a security vulnerability into a new school wing, but we don't live in a sane world.

In the immediate aftermath of sandy Hook, the school board in the town next to mine prodly announced that they were going to upgrade security at their two grammar schools. But (for security reasons, of course) they wouldn't say what the upgrades consisted of. I had known the then-building inspector in that town for many years (he has since retired), so I asked him. The "upgrades" they installed were exactly the same "security" features that had just been installed at Sandy Hook, and which had (obviously) completely failed to provide any security against a lone shooter.

This is why a valid security analysis can't be done by a "team" that's made up exclusively of people from one specialty. That just institutionalizes tunnel vision.
 
Thanks for the clarification. I suspected that security was not part of your formal training. I understand about gaining skills after graduation and licensing - I am a veterinarian and my daughter is a structural engineer. I had a dean in vet school who told us that our diploma was a license to start learning. It's a good attitude to take into life, but as you point out convincingly, not terribly common.
 
This is why a valid security analysis can't be done by a "team" that's made up exclusively of people from one specialty. That just institutionalizes tunnel vision.

To be fair, its rather difficult to make that judgment from the outside. If you are not on the team(so to speak), you don't really know who they are consulting with, who they are working with or where they are receiving information from.

I don't know anything about school shield programs but I have worked on building projects transition teams which were full of LE officials and have been a department liaison on similar projects. Although everyone on the team was part of the LE community in some way, we consulted with people all over the United States, Feds and carefully vetted contractors and specialists. Control was a large concern and there wasn't really a provision to "sign up" to help if you were not already selected as part of the team. A lot of that had to do with control as well as requirement placed on us regarding information. It wasn't tunnel vision at all but we picked the people based on our own standards, they didn't pick us.

Just because they do not allow non-LE to be part of the program does not mean they are not consulting closely with or receiving services of specialized individuals. I am sure you are a smart guy and I am sure you can find an avenue to help in some sort of capacity, it just might not be exactly in the way you want. Good luck all the same. I wish more people had a desire get involved in the betterment of school safety.
 
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To be fair, its rather difficult to make that judgment from the outside. If you are not on the team(so to speak), you don't really know who they are consulting with, who they are working with or where they are receiving information from.
I think we have differing definitions of "team." If the "team" is getting input from outside consultants, then the "team" is (IMHO) not a complete team. My definition of "team" would include any "consultants" necessary to provide a comprehensive review and recommendations. If that means architects and code consultants, then by my definition those should be part of the team, not "outside consultants."
 
Gee,
I’m betting everyone that is in the 55-75 age range is still traumatized from all the early 1960’s “Duck and Cover” drills we all did in grade school...
“You can survive a nuclear blast”, etc, etc monikers.
Yea, right.

“Someone / some groups” need to deal with the current “threat du jour” and get over it. Every other generation has.
 
TZAX, oddly enough, Duck and Cover has some practical uses. At the distances where one has time to react, flying debris and partial structural collapses are significant concerns, while instant vaporization is less an issue. (There are several websites that can do rough damage/survivability estimates for nuclear detonations. The 100% fatality zone is usually smaller than most people think.)

On topic, one wonders why an SRO would have their firearm unholstered at school...? Training helps, but cannot overcome bad habits or momentary stupidity.
 
True Ramius,
Later in parts of Texas they became “tornado drills”.

But the bottom line is every generation has their PTSD generator: The heartiest adapt, overcome and survive. The snowflakes melt and become drama queens.

I love the British moniker “Keep a stiff upper lip “. They earned it.
 
I’m betting everyone that is in the 55-75 age range is still traumatized from all the early 1960’s “Duck and Cover” drills we all did in grade school...
“You can survive a nuclear blast”, etc, etc monikers.
Yea, right.

Duck and cover actually did traumatize some folks. As for effectiveness, actually, there was some genuine benefits to duck and cover, not for direct hits, but for "near" misses. The military even used a similar tactic in the field with troops. The field version of duck and cover helped prevent troops from getting flash blinded and by being hit by debris carried by the shock wave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEmB1pNQMHg
 
True Ramius,
Later in parts of Texas they became “tornado drills”.

But the bottom line is every generation has their PTSD generator: The heartiest adapt, overcome and survive. The snowflakes melt and become drama queens.

I love the British moniker “Keep a stiff upper lip “. They earned it.
Ahh we finally got to the point to break out the "snowflake" comments. Now we're getting somewhere. Yes we all know, previous generations walked uphill both ways in a snowstorm. Of course I could point out that ducking under a desk is a tad different than watching people armed with sims/UTM pistols run through the school and killing your teachers execution style and that far more US children have died from school shootings than ever died from nuclear bombs, but my guess is it would fall on deaf ears.

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Back in my day, people spent a lot of money digging “fallout shelters” in their basements. People were genuinely afraid a nuclear holocaust was going to sweep over them, and it was not an irrational fear.

Were people traumatized by that? I expect they were. Look at today- people are terrified by democratic socialists. Never mind that is how Scandinavia runs, it has the word “socialist” in it and that leads people to think it’s communist because “USSR” and such ignorance is based out of fear.

Now, suppose they had a duck and cover drill, but to make it realistic they shut down power to the school simultaneously with an enormous flash outside. People would be washing out their pants afterwards.

People were traumatized by a radio program where they believed the world was being invaded by aliens. Some of us still wear tinfoil inside our hats, because it can’t hurt.

On a serious note, there is this fallacy that kids are born “tabula rasa”.. they are a blank slate and that anyone can pull themselves up by their bootstraps like a Horacio Alger story. The sad fact is it’s not true.

Some people are born on third base and think they hit a triple. “Born with a silver spoon in their mouth.”

I have known kids, exceptional kids. Kids really working far harder than any of their classmates but they came to school exhausted and hungry because their brother was shot in a gang shootout and was brought home at midnight, shot in the gut, bleeding all over the kitchen. The rest of the night was EMTs, ambulances, cops asking questions until 5am. Mom didn’t make breakfast, but that kid was in my math class.

If that kid freaks out in an active shooter drill and you think she’s a “snow flake” then I am happy you have been blessed with a nice safe childhood and have been insulated from what urban poverty can be like and have a nice day.
 
I was in grammar school and junior high in the heyday of fallout shelters. Around here, they weren't in basements. They were free-standing bunkers, buried in the front or back yard, covered over with two to four feet of dirst, and with a filtered ventilation system that drew air from outside. In those days I mowed lawns for some people in town and I was given tours of some of their bunkers.

One of my high school classmates was the son of the owner of a company that made concrete septic tanks. I learned from him at a high school reunion just a few years ago that these fallout shelter bunkers were just modified and repurposed septic tanks.

I don't recall anyone being traumatized, either by the duck and cover drills in school or by the construction of bunkers in the yard. We were engaged in a standoff with Russia and both sides had nuclear bombs. That was reality. Back then people seemed to have a more pragmatic view of life. The notion of "safe spaces" and being allowed to live a life completely free of anything that might be remotely upsetting was several decades in the future. Back then, we accepted that a nuclear war might happen, and we prepared for it as well as possible. End of story.
 
Back then, we accepted that a nuclear war might happen, and we prepared for it as well as possible. End of story.

Great story.

Again, one could have happened. One actually has happened. That alone is a pretty dramatic difference. There is also a notable difference between ducking under a desk and, as was the case in some of these examples, having someone pretend to execute your teacher in front of you. One is dramatically more personal than the other. Are both dead in each case? Sure, but some deaths are more detached than others. It's why the quote about a single death being tragic and a million deaths being a statistic continues to exist.

I get it. Every generation that has come and gone has their stories of how times and people were tougher in their day. That's great, but it somehow doesn't negate all arguments about today.

I imagine some person sitting there saying, "Heck, you people got to walk to school? In my day we didn't have a school. We just watched if the other kid died and then didn't do that." See how silly it can get?



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I'm not even forty yet and I remember duck and cover drills in Elementary school. We had to go into the downstairs hallway and duck down on our hands and knees and cover our head with a textbook. This was not an area prone to tornados or intense storms. I also remember living and travelling out west where underground missile silos were common. Those were not traumatic for me. I think there is something more personal, sinister, and evil with someone(s) that wants to shoot up a school full of children.
 
Gee,
I’m betting everyone that is in the 55-75 age range is still traumatized from all the early 1960’s “Duck and Cover” drills we all did in grade school...
“You can survive a nuclear blast”, etc, etc monikers.
Yea, right.

“Someone / some groups” need to deal with the current “threat du jour” and get over it. Every other generation has.
I'm traumatized by having had to relearn the Pledge of Allegiance after they went and added "under God".
 
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