Action Screw froze when pillar bedding...dry ice bath?

B

Brad NSW

Inactive
Finished pillar bedding an old GE 8mm Mauser.

When done, I could not get the rear action screw to free up.

Gun is shooting great now BUT...

After deer season, I'm thinking of buying some dry ice, "freezing" the gun in a bag filled with dry ice and then trying to free it up.

Any thought or problems doing this? (I would take the scope off prior to "freezing" it). Figured an couple of hours in a dry ice bath might contract it enough I could torque it out.
 
Use penetrating oil first. Mind you, if you epoxied the screw in, oil won't help. Wouldn't bother with dry ice if you have a freezer big enough.
You could try a soldering iron directly on the screw head too. It's a heat or cold thing to break epoxy's eternal bond.
 
I'd pull the scope, soak the exposed screw head/surroundings w/ kroil and/or LockEez....

Then turn the rifle upside down in a padded cradle, and use THIS on the screw.

One or two moderate whacks with a hammer will tell the tale.
(ps: you can also do this with a regular well-fitting screwdriver, firm down/twisting pressure, and whack the screwdriver with the hammer again)
 
"Gun is shooting great..."

Why not leave it alone - especially a bolt gun??

I think I have one or two rifles I have bedded, and still haven't taken them apart.
 
Thanks all.

Impact driver ordered on amazon.

I'm not overly concerned, now that it's shooting nice. It looked like it hadn't been disassembled since WWII, why not another 50 years, right?

I did put release agent on the pillar screw. Usually I tighten them up, then give a 1/2 turn an hour later. Fell asleep that night and next morning, couldn't get it to break free.
 
If you want to get the action cold, and not the stock, you can use bottled CO2, if you have any available from a MIG welding machine, etc, and spray just the barrel and action, to drop their temperature, and cause them to slightly shrink. Any bottled refrigerant will do this, too, including electronics 'freeze spray' from Radio Shack.

I came up with that long ago, to shrink bearing races, so they would come out of their seats easily. Everybody used dry ice, and it hit me to just spray them with the gas from the CO2 bottle at my MIG machine.
 
As mentioned, epoxies all yield to enough heat. If you use the hot soldering iron method (hot meaning about 75-100W chisel point, and not a 25W circuit board soldering iron), once the screw is removed, keep in mind the epoxy around it is still soft until it cools again, so you may not want to pop the action loose for a couple of minutes afterward.
 
I have had some guns come to my shop that were done by their owners and had the same problem.
My fix is as follows:

Dig a trench long enough in the ground to hold the gun about 8" deep. Line it with about 1/2" to 3/4" thick news paper. Set the rifle in the trench and cover it with dry ice. (scope off) wiggle it around a bit to get the dry ice under it and over it. Wrap the paper over the top so it's got a "cold blanket" all around it and bury it in dirt for about 10 minutes.

Be ready with heavy gloves on. Have a good fitting screw driver in your back pocket. In 10 minutes dig it out. As soon as you get it out of the cold blanket unscrew the screws. Don't wait longer than about 10 seconds.
It has worked for me every time.
 
Brad,

When you get the chance, please let us know how things finally went...
...when done in this order (Simplest-to-Most-Complex):

1. Scope off, rifle upside down/action on sandbag: Simple well-fitting screwdriver held firmly down in slot, smacked w/ hammer several times while firm twist applied

2. Scope off, rifle upside down/action on sandbag: Well-fitting bit on end of Impact Driver in slot, smacked w/ Hammer several times

3. Scope off, rifle upside down/action on sandbag: Soldering tip having well-heated the screwhead, well-fitting screwdriver held firmly down in slot, smacked several times with hammer while firm twist applied

4. Scope off, rifle upside down/action on sandbag: Soldering tip having well-heated the screwhead, well-fitting bit on end of Impact Driver in slot, smacked several times w/ Hammer

5. Exotic burial of entire rifle in dry ice, multiple incantations read from a 1st-ed copy of Hatcher's Notebook,... then dug up and used by Extra in a Walking Dead episode. :D





(post: I'll be surprised if you have to go past step #1)
 
I think Forster still sells nice guard screws should you end up goobering yours.

Once you get your screw out,you want to make sure you have clearance around the screw when installed.

Stock,or pillar,to screw body contact is not good for accuracy
 
Once you get your screw out,you want to make sure you have clearance around the screw when installed.

Stock,or pillar,to screw body contact is not good for accuracy
Click to expand...

^^ This.

And, ditto on the soldering iron on the screw head...it's saved me before :)

Consider not using guard screws or action screws when pillar bedding, rather- headless screws that hold the pillars in position; and electrical tape or surgical tubing to evenly apply the needed pressure on the action to hold it in place while the bedding compound cures. It's critical to not place point-loads on an action in the process, to get a "stress-free" bedding job on the receiver.

http://www.6mmbr.com/pillarbedding.html
 
mehavey said:
I'd pull the scope, soak the exposed screw head/surroundings w/ kroil and/or LockEez....

Then turn the rifle upside down in a padded cradle, and use THIS on the screw.

One or two moderate whacks with a hammer will tell the tale.
Click to expand...

I always preferred the Johnson Bar. (Though, quite expensive, even for a professional.) On your typical bolt action, it would be anchored to the front action screw, in order to remove the rear screw.

I'd go for a hammer and a screwdriver before an impact driver. At least I'd have better control, that way.

Regardless, heat would come first.

I think I would actually take the rifle to a 'smith to have the screw drilled out from the top, before using an impact driver.
Screws are a dime a dozen, and it's a reasonably quick job to drill the screw so that it can be sheared without ruining the threads in the tang.
 
An impact driver is as gentle (or as hard) in its twisting action as your hammer blow.
What it does best is keep the blade firmly in the slot.

That said:
- Screwdriver/hammer first
- Impact driver w/ graduated smacks next

Been there. Done that.
 
While I can't say I necessary have the answer,I'd be reluctant to use the impact.
I have one,Proto.It works.I like the tool...for metal.
Plastics,resins,whatever you want to call them,absorb the impact differently.

IMO,the epoxy will yield to slow steady pressure rather than impact.

Is this a wood stock?Or foam core glass?.What about the thin metal under the screw head in the guard? I just think I'd leave the hammer out of the picture.

IMO,protecting the stock with cork,or leather or rubber,fixture it in a mill vise or on a drillpress with the screw centered under the spindle.If you get aquality one,a hex drive power screwdriver bit is as tough as any.Spindle in neutral,or belt slack on a drill press,fit a combination wrench to the screwdriver bit.Breaker off on the machine.Chuck the bit,use the spindle to hold the bit down and stable in the screws slot.If you set the quill stop,the bit will not gouge the rifle if it breaks.Apply the torque with the combination wrench.
It will break loose,or it won't.With that allset up,ready to go,the soldering iron on the screw head may help.
Someone suggested a drill out from the thread end of the screw.
If all else failed,and a drill out was necessary,I believe I would do it on the screw head end.The drill just over screwbody dia,and just less than pillar ID.Once I got the drill in full dia,Imight switch to a flat bottom drill.Why? For the drift punch later.(If you want to get really clever,a left handed grind on the drill,so it cuts counterclockwise,would apply "unscrew" torque as the cutting heat goes into the screw.If you know how to make the cutter.)
The idea being with the head popped off the screw,the screw body would look like an inletting screw.Beware of pulling on the trigger guard bow.The boss around the front guard screw needs to come straight out.If you have a hinged floorplate,the hinge pin makes a weak spot in the guard.Bad things happen at the pin hole if you pull on the guard bow.Learned the hard way.
Hopefully the headless guard screw could be driven through as the receiver comes out.
Think back about release agent.What do you believe the screw is stuck to?
The threads? The screw body/pillar ID? The head?
Worth thinking about.
 
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