Achieving and Maintaining HD/SD Proficiency

R

rdtompki

New member
Based on what I see in the S&W/M&P forums there is a significant increase in purchase of handguns intended for HD/SD (e.g., M&P Shield). I don't CCW, but even in California the required skill level isn't great and certainly doesn't relate to a self defense situation.

Any concerns that CCW or HD handgun owners fail to train and practice to some minimum level of skill in terms of handgun manipulation and ability to quickly and reliably hit a man-sized target with multiple rounds? Public ranges in my area are for bulls-eye shooting. So if you want to work relevant skills you've got to find a private range or get involved in some sort of self defense relevant competition (e.g., IDPA). What percentage of handgun owners who claim a self defense purpose take the training/practice seriously?
 
I don't know what the percentage is nationally ...in terms of guys that practice their skills for tactical shooting .../ in my area, based on what I see at my local ranges, its a pretty good percentage of guys that maintain their skills.

I think everyone who chooses to carry a concealed weapon...needs to set their own goals - and practice to maintain their goals...and whether that is weekly or twice a month or whatever, depends on the skill and experience of the shooter.

New shooters should be encouraged to seek out good instruction ...and practice...and get involved in competition, if that's what they want to do.

Maintaining my skill / and practicing weekly is important to me to maintain my proficiency as Tactically Accurate with the guns I choose to carry ( I think handgun skills erode faster than most shooting skills with rifles and shotguns ) - and I enjoy shooting every week !
 
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rdtompki said:
Any concerns that CCW or HD handgun owners fail to train and practice to some minimum level of skill in terms of handgun manipulation and ability to quickly and reliably hit a man-sized target with multiple rounds? Public ranges in my area are for bulls-eye shooting. So if you want to work relevant skills you've got to find a private range or get involved in some sort of self defense relevant competition (e.g., IDPA). What percentage of handgun owners who claim a self defense purpose take the training/practice seriously?
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I am much more worried that some idiot with a 2,000 pound car is texting his buddy and so runs into me, which is what happened to my wife several years ago.
 
I am much more worried that some idiot with a 2,000 pound car is texting his buddy and so runs into me, which is what happened to my wife several years ago.
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I couldn't agree with you more . Driver is a privilege which we treat as a right. Gun ownership is a right which the government treats as a privilege. The driving horse has left the barn. Road carnage dwarfs anything associated with criminal or negligent use of firearms. I do think gun owners should hold themselves to high standards.
 
I dont think most defensive shootings would be significantly influenced by practice one way or the other. The notion that if you put in the money and time your gunfight is gonna go down like an action movie or ispc match is a fantasy devised to liberate you from your funds. Good luck
 
Judging solely by the numbers, the folks who own firearms suitable for defense can be counted in the millions.
By comparison, the number of gun owners who actually go regularly to the range, to organized matches, and the training facilities are but a fraction of that.
Kind of like the number of car owners who are actually skilled at driving.
(But don't get me started on that)!
As for the benefit of practice, matches and training, how can it not be extremely important?
It has to help to actually know what you are doing with that shootin' iron.
Yeah, I know, lots of folks think they are natural born drivers and shooters.
Animals might have instincts for the skills they need to survive, but we humans mostly don't have a clue, without developing skills the hard, old fashioned way.
 
I shot USPSA and IDPA every week, for over ten years. I now shoot once or twice a month.
My best IDPA classifier score was about 108 seconds. Yesterday, I shot a 132. I dropped the fewest points among 60-70 shooters, so I guess the sight alignment and trigger control are still there, but slow-slow. Not only that, I predicted my score would be 120, so my perception of how well I can shoot needs some adjustment, too.
Of course, none of that has to do with awareness or mindset, but being able to shoot well can't hurt if you're packing for self-protection.
 
I enjoy my guns for the sheer fun of shooting them, that being said they truly serve one purpose and that's to protect my family, and loved ones. I take the kiddos and the old lady shooting at least twice a month for fun. At least 1-3x per week though I wake up early and strictly "practice. " I shoot both hands, single handed, bullseye, distance, rapid fire,and kneeling.

I'm old enough to know I'm young, and I don't know even half of it if that makes sense. :confused: . When I was younger I figured I'd served as an infantryman in a war and that was all I needed to know. One thing this site taught me though is that I was very wrong. There are guys that haven't served that are tenfold more proficient with a firearm than I am, and I try to bear that in mind. Unfortunately there are no teams or leagues where I live so I don't get that competitive edge.

I can't say for all over but here in AZ all my buddies that carry maybe have a box or two at most through their weapon system and that's unfortunate. I try to lead by example, but our priorities don't seem to align. I don't reload and unfortunately it adds up, but my old lady is extremely understanding and says her and I's peace of mind is well worth it. So we kind of look at it as a monthly expense.
 
Most don't, many of those probably don't feel comfortable doing a basic fieldstrip of their handgun. I won't say that everyone has to do IDPA type events to be proficient, and while I do think that is good practice (I've shot IDPA events enough to be decently good), I also don't really like how every target requires a double tap. In IDPA you double tap (at least) the cardboard and move on, in the real world you wouldn't "move on" until that threat has stopped, be it one shot or seven.

I think those shooting games/events are fun and do make for good practice and can increase both your speed and accuracy at speed, but just keep in mind, in the real world, to shoot until the threat has stopped.
 
You're free to shoot the targets once, seven times, or not at all, if you want.
That said, I, too, prefer that the required number of scoring hits is varied, so that you're not conditioned to always "shoot two and move on".
 
The very enjoyable games are not a substitute for defensive training.
They will definitely improve gun handling and shooting skills, though.
The best shootists that I've run across did both, the games for fun and practice, and trained for particular weapons and use from folks who know.
 
Public ranges in my area are for bulls-eye shooting. So if you want to work relevant skills you've got to find a private range or get involved in some sort of self defense relevant competition (e.g., IDPA).
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Often you can only shoot 1 bullet every 1-2 seconds at a public range, but this doesn't mean you can't get some "decent" practice in self defense. I often start with my gun in a low ready position in Double Action (DA/SA gun). I think in my head "GO" and then as quickly as possible put the gun on target & fire. It's ok to double tap (just not triple tap) at my indoor range.

Yes joining an IDPA competition or private range would help for sure (also taking a class or 3), so I'm not disagreeing with your premise, just offering an extra viewpoint. :)
 
Often you can only shoot 1 bullet every 1-2 seconds at a public range, but this doesn't mean you can't get some "decent" practice in self defense. I often start with my gun in a low ready position in Double Action (DA/SA gun). I think in my head "GO" and then as quickly as possible put the gun on target & fire.
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Agree completely. I've been doing just that albeit without the double taps since they are verboten. I've also been using 5 bullseye targets and trying to do rapid transitions from left-to-right, top-to-bottom.

I don't CCW so it's not likely I'd every have to draw from a holster in a HD situation, but I do keep a belt with two loaded mags in my closet and now that I have two M&P 40s I'll have one at the bedside and one in the belt at night. It seems to me that the draw in a typical SD situation will have required the gun owner to have practiced thousands of times to have the muscle memory work under very high stress. Maybe this is more important that actually firing the handgun? Some folks have 2-3 CCW and obviously a variety of out-in-public cover garments so the actual deployment of the handgun better involve no conscious thought.
 
Public ranges around here (also much cheaper) are the 1 shot per 3 second variety. They have their usefullness. I try to get to the one near work, at least once a month.

There are semi-public (membership makes it cheaper, but is not required), that allow for multi shot, rapid fire strings. I also try to get to the closest one of these once a month.

Thus, I shot the "big" guns at least twice a month.

However, I have a BB replica of my everyday carry, that I frequently use in the garage to practice, drawing from a holster and firing, as well as various drills from strange positions, moving and firing, etc. I also shoot a different airgun at 30 feet for precision on occasion.

So, I have to be a little creative, but I think I get a decent level of training in without always being at the range or in competition.
 
What's your life worth?

Compete.
Virtually all of us can afford a USPSA (preferred) or IDPA or ICORE match once a month.
Matches enhance one's safety and gun-handling skills, and can potentially increase shooting and thinking-under-pressure-with-gun-in-hand skills.

And as advised above, professional defense skills can be had from numerous trainers.
Costs more.
 
Some useful things to practice at a slow fire range:
Mag changes - shoot one round to slide lock, or an empty cylinder, change mag, or load cylinder, shoot one more round.
Hand changes - shoot one round right hand, transfer gun to left hand, shoot one round.
Empty gun pickup - start with empty gun on bench, load gun and shoot one round.
There's lots of useful things to practice, even with restrictive range rules.
 
... What percentage of handgun owners who claim a self defense purpose take the training/practice seriously?
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How many people who obtain a driver's license so they can drive a motor vehicle all the time take anything other then the minimal/mandated training needed in order to pass their DMV test in CA?

How many have actually prepared themselves to operate their cars, trucks or motorcycles in unexpected, chaotic & dynamic emergency situations?

Do you really expect gun owners who decide to lawfully carry a concealed weapon to have any more interest in "extra training" to use their firearms than they would their motor vehicles?

Don't mistake my comments to mean I don't think it's a good idea. I've been a LE firearms instructor since '90, and after the laws regarding CCW licenses in CA changed in '99, I became involved in teaching classes created for CCW licensees.

The courts have held that shooting firearms is a perishable skill. The significant majority of gun owners of my acquaintance who lawfully carry concealed weapons as LE or private citizens seem content to stop their training at whatever serves them as a required acceptable minimum.

Granted, the cost of additional training when it comes to taking time from work & family, as well as any involved travel, lodging & meal expenses ... and then the actual cost of the training ... can be a bit difficult or daunting to many folks trying to make ends meet, especially in today's economic conditions.

Then, there's being able to know how to choose from among the growing number of commercial classes that might give some gun owners pause, as well.

Skillset is important. No doubt about it. Shooting has been held to be a perishable skill for a reason.

However, knowing and understanding the applicable laws involved in the use of force is even more important.

Then, there's the mindset consideration.

Equipment familiarization, inspection and maintenance is pretty important, too. ;)

As an armorer for a number of different firearms, I've had to correct many, many more shooter-induced "problems" which gun owners/users mistakenly thought were "gun problems", but which were actually the result of improper handling, usage or maintenance.

Consider that most LE agencies have to require their staff to periodically qualify, upon threat of disciplinary action. Sure, there's always that very small number of shooting enthusiasts in police work who would use as much range time and ammunition as they're allowed, but they're typically in the minority.

Not that dissimilar to many of the private citizen gun owners who want to carry concealed weapons, when it comes down to it. Look how many CCW licensees who post on internet gun enthusiast forums who complain about even being required to take a basic class, or demonstrate shooting proficiency, in order to obtain their license.
 
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fastbolt,
That's a great post. I would only make one observation that contrasts driving and CCW.

The greatest driving hazard is the other guy and on public roads, in traffic, there is a pretty significant limit (IMO) in how much one's driving skill can increase safety. Not to say that driving standards shouldn't be higher. Driving is clearly a privilege and there are clearly drivers who shouldn't be driving not because of a lack of "skill", but because of attitude.

Setting aside CCW purely for upholding our 2A rights, I assume people CCW in order to be able to defend themselves and protect their loved ones. This is a right that some would heavily qualify. It won't do someone much good having a concealed handgun if they can't deploy it reliably from all manner of cover garments; I can't imagine the stress in such a situation, but if drawing the handgun requires any conscious thought beyond the initial decision I would think one is in big trouble.
 
I only used the driving analogy to make people stop and think about similarities in handling equipment in everyday conditions and then what might happen if they were caught up in a sudden emergency.

The use of a motor vehicle is actually something most people have the opportunity to do almost everyday ... and more than once a day, at that. That means they get more practice and hands-on experience in actually using the equipment everyday.

Not the same thing as being trained to better react, function and use the vehicle in emergency conditions, though. Most people who go through their first EVOC class get an opportunity to realize it's a far different thing to safely & effectively operate an emergency vehicle ... in emergency conditions ... than just driving their own car from point A to point B everyday. ;)

I've seen LE & private CCW licensees alike stab fingers at the wrong controls on their guns when presented with a stressful moment in a new-to-them drill. They're trying to stop and think their way through a situation that they've not only failed to quickly recognize and understand (completely), but for which they haven't trained, which means they don't have thoroughly ingrained training habits upon which to rely.

Achieving and maintaining "proficiency" can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. ;)

And that's in prepared drill situations where they know and expect they're supposed to shoot an intended target. Start to toss in judgment/decision-making (Shoot/No-Shoot targets) drill situations, or even simple movements (let alone a moving threat target, or a situation where both they and the target are in motion), and lack of training, practice and experience can really start to create the potential for brain-lock and/or bad decisions.
 
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