Accuracy expectations

H

homesick

New member
This has probably been asked before but Iam interested to know what my fellow shooters expect out of their hunting rifles. (100 yds.)
Varmints my rifles must shoot a 1/2" or better.
Deer my rifles must shoot 1" or better.

I know Warbirdlover said his 300wm would shoot 3 shot clusters which is will under 1" he has restocked it and now it does not meet his expectations.

I know a guy at our gun club that says his expectations for his deer rifle is 3 shoots in a 9" pie plate.
 
It a personal idea of accuracy,

had a M70 black shadow n 7mmMAg and could not get consistent groups.
Best even a smith could get was a five inch group & 100.

Have several other rifle in .308 for deer, and they will group inside the "X-ring" of a standard 200 yd target from prone position with sling.

Other are happy with "minute of deer" grouping.
 
If a centerfire bolt action rifle won't shoot 1", 3 shot groups at 100 yards with it's prefered load it goes down the road or get repaired by me if possible. I do give some slack to lever actions and some semi-autos.

Same applies to rimfires that won't do 1", 5 shot groups at 50 yards.

LK
 
homesick said:
Deer my rifles must shoot 1" or better.
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It depends on what we're talking about. If you're shooting from a sandbagged bench, then 1 inch groups at 100 yards are perfectly reasonable with today's rifles and ammunition. If you move away from the bench, you're liable to find that the loose nut behind the stock opens the group somewhat.

We all strive for that magic one-inch group and over the past several years we've gotten a whole lot better with improvements in rifles and ammunition. Twenty years ago, it was a goal. Today it is almost an expectation.

When I'm teaching grandkids to shoot, we use a 9" paper plate to replicate the vital area of a common whitetail deer. They've got to be able to hit that plate, every time, on demand at whatever yardage I suspect they might reasonably encounter the animal.. That's a reasonable expectation of accuracy in a hunting marksman. I know that their rifles will shoot into that one inch, the question is: can they shoot into that paper plate?
 
For a hunting rifle 1.5" at 100 yds is acceptable. I never hunted out of a vehicle or had anyone else carry my gear. Accordingly, I never carried shooting sticks, etc. I did use a small Bushnell spotting scope when hunting antelope and sheep.

Go to the range and shoot from field positions, and tell me that you can shoot moa. I would suggest that shooting on the side of a mountain from sitting or whatever you can use, that no one can shoot moa.

Jerry
 
+1 for PawPaw's respone. Off a bench with a good rest I fully expect my hunting rifles to be able to consistantly group 1" or less with my reloads. When I move off the bench I expect myself to be able to hit a paper plate sized target every time at whatever distance I expect to shoot at my intended quarry.
 
Go to the range and shoot from field positions, and tell me that you can shoot moa. I would suggest that shooting on the side of a mountain from sitting or whatever you can use, that no one can shoot moa.
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Who the heck was talkin about accuracy of the shooter? Of coarse that's variable and yes, I can shoot 1 MOA from field positions cause I'm smart enough to use a rest (improvised or other wise) when I shoot as often as possible. Bipod, backpack, tree, sticks, rock, prone, etc etc. Shooting off hand at game when you don't have to is lame.

LK
 
Realistically, people took lots of game with rifles that grouped much larger than 1". I have an NEF that will do .5 MOA with jacketed hornady bullets. Cast bullets open that up to 3" groups at 100 yards. However, given the price of the cast bullets and the damage they too can do, 3" is fine. With that load, I'm going to limit my range. Perhaps a better question relates to the range of your shooting. At a given range, the rifle has to do minute-of-kill zone. That .45-70 would make a poor prairie dog rifle. My .22 does better at 100 yards. However, for coyotes and up, it's acceptable out to 150 yards.
 
I will believe you can shoot moa hunting when I see it.

Accuracy of a hunting rifle is only as useful as the shooter. I have known shooters who bought 7MM Mags and then loaded them down for accuracy, but who could not shoot accurately enough in the field to make a difference. Some even used less than the best hunting bullets to get better accuracy when hunting.

To be unhappy with a big game hunting rifle that won't group sub moa is silly in my view. If it shoots better than you can shoot in the field it is accurate enough.

But let each do as he will and worry about accuracy as he will.

Jerry
 
I benchmark all my hunting rifles (2 .30-06s, 2 .308s, 1 6.5x55) with either FGMM (for the .30s) or with a match hand load (for the 6.5). I have obtained 3-shot groups as small as 0.3" at 100 yds with the .30s and 0.75" with the 6.5 (a Ruger No. 1A) off a front rest or tripod with rear bag.

Next I develop some hunting loads using Hornady, Nosler, Sierra and Barnes hunting bullets. I've been able to develop loads that will shoot 3-shot groups to <1" at 100 yards. Once I accomplish that, I shoot to practice field positions, typically sitting, prone off a pack, and off shooting sticks. I work on basic accuracy to take the rifle and ammo out of the list of variables...that leaves me, my shooting skill, such as it is, my range estimation, choice of field position and caliber and bullet choice the key variables for my success.

FH
 
Accuracy of a hunting rifle is only as useful as the shooter. I have known shooters who bought 7MM Mags and then loaded them down for accuracy, but who could not shoot accurately enough in the field to make a difference. Some even used less than the best hunting bullets to get better accuracy when hunting.
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A shooter may have little chance of shooting MOA but he has ZERO chance if he's shooting a gun that isn't capable.

My requirements have less to do with practical accuracy than my opinions of the quality of the gun. You'll notice on my first post in this thread I used the word "repair". No, I don't need to shoot MOA to kill a deer at 100 or even 200 yards. But in this world of new $300 rifles that will shoot MOA I'll be damned if I'm gonna own a centerfire bolt action that won't do the same. If it won't do MOA something is wrong and I aim to fix it or send it along.

LK
 
My expectations are always slightly smaller groups than the gun will shoot.:D;)

I don't really differentiate between varmint guns and deer guns. There's no reason a 7-08 or my new 270WSM can't shoot the same 1/3-1/2" groups that my .204 shoots.

It's the drive for better shooting that keeps me shooting. Sure, my deer rifle would actually be entirely sufficient at even 2 MOA. Something in me won't accept that though. There's a drive to be better. Me and the gun.
 
I "expect" my bolt action hunting rifles to be able to shoot right at 1 MOA I expect that I as the shooter should be able to shoot 1 MOA prone, 2-3 MOA sitting or kneeling and up to 3-4 MOA leaning against a rock or tree.
 
The weak link in shooting is the shooter, not the rifle/ammo combo.

The kill area (heart-lung) of a deer size animal is greater then 12 inches.

A 2 MOA rifle will hit that area at 600 yards. Not many people can hold 2 MOA at 600 yards, few yet, in normal shooting positions you use when hunting.

And then there is the wind.

I've shot a lot of long range matches, enough to know when I'm hunting, unless everything is perfect (which it never is) I limit my hunting to less then 300 yards.
 
Back to the original question..I expect a modern rifle off the rack (Rem. 700) to hold at least 1"-1.5" group at 100 yrds. Rimfire I expect the rifle to hold a 1"-2" pattern at 50-100 yrds. Yes the gun, Yes the ammo, and Yes the Person behind the rifle makes a difference. You have to stop feeding into the hype of reviews of editors who are paided to say what factories or company's are tell them to. Look at real world information from real people and make the best decision on what you feel is a honest and "REAL" expectation to you.
 
If I can obtain groups of around 1 inch at 100 yards I'm happy with my hunting rifles. For deer rifles these are 3 shot groups, for my varmit rifles these are 5 shot groups. My new little .17hmr will put 10 shots in 1 inch at 100 yards. Sure I get the occassional 3 shots through the same hole at 100 yards, but an average 1 inch group will satisfy me.
 
If my Ruger had always shot the groups I'm getting I'd be satisfied but since I know what it "should" shoot I want it back to that. If I bought a new rifle and it barely made MOA or even didn't I'd try to get it under MOA. So I guess I'm saying I want it under MOA at 100 yards to be happy. And surprisingly I've gotten rid of all the rifles I've had that didn't do it (most when I handloaded) like a Browning A-Bolt Micro-Medallion 7mm-08, a Howa 1500 30-06, a Winchester 70 (80's version) .270, and a Remington 700 7mm mag (70's version). I could cut the group size from factory ammo in half or even much better most of the time but if those groups were over 1 MOA the rifle is gone. And if my Ruger had never shot those 1/2" MOA groups and shot what it's doing now I would have gotten rid of it long ago.
 
I work up loads and shoot off a bench, once a load meets the standard it is tested several times to make sure it is good. It is also shoot at 200 yards, this is just a habit as I used to hunt out west but now my hunting is in wooded areas, where long distant shooting is very limited.
Shooting small groups off a bench builds a trust in my equipment. Granted it can not equal field conditions but knowing what it can do takes all the dought out of it. I need to know its just my nature.
I also make sure the 1st 3 shot group out of a cold barrel is under 1" and is sighted in 1 1/2" high at 100 yds.
 
I generally try to put whatever the gun holds into less than a 3" group at 50 yds. That's iron sights, off handed. I haven't hunted with a scoped centerfire in so long it ain't funny but I'd say 1moa is plenty accurate enough. My one scoped squirrel gun (High Standard model 30) will put the entire mag tube into a quarter sized group at 25 yds, without really sandbagging or anything. My target guns are another matter entirely.
 
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