Accidental Shooting

I am glad she is OK!
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She is not OK. She is alive and ambulatory, but her leg is permanently disabled, painful and putting her on a cane on bad days.

I think an important distinction needs to be pointed out that a "trigger job" consisting of drop in parts from reputable manufacturers
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Why? Drop in parts are subject to tolerance stacking and misfunction. There are kits on the market that will bypass firing pin blocks and reduce sear engagement.
 
There are kits on the market that will bypass firing pin blocks and reduce sear engagement.
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That's where the aforementioned research and common sense comes into play. Anyone selling a firing pin block bypass doesn't meet the threshold of reputable IMO. YMMV.
 
Sure makes buying a "used" gun an iffy proposition.

She was/is sure lucky it turned out OK after alot of rehab.


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I think that if you modify a part, especially a stock OEM one, you need to know if it is through hardened or not...

If you are unsure, then the part need to be put on a replacement schedule. Or use aftermarket through hardened parts.

I would bet that in addition to the other mechanical issues and poor work... additional wear over time caused the issue. The reliability issues are likely the reason it was sold in the first place.


Even a professionally modified gun can wear over time if the above applies.

The old phrase... "What do they call a medical student with the lowest passing graduating grade?... Doctor." Comes to mind... The same goes with any profession that requires training and/or skill. Gunsmiths are definitely in that category.


But I do agree that there are an abundance of "Bubbas" out there... So care should always be taken with used guns. Much more so with used "competition" guns.
 
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I am absolutely sympathetic to Cameon . What happened to her should not have happened.
I also respect her for sharing her experience,and for her spirit.I wish her the best recovery possible.
Between the guy who modified the gun and the shop who resold it without checking it out,they share 99.999% responsibility. You don't "cut your losses" and sell something that is not right. If you can't make it right,chop saw it before you pass on an unsafe gun.There is not a S+W M+P on this planet worth someone getting hurt over.
Between the S+W custom shop and Apex,there is NO EXCUSE for a Dremel redesign of an M+P.

Now,that .001 % responsibility I saved out. Hindsight 20/20.woulda,coulda,shoulda armchair comment...that is true:
We only have power over what we claim responsibility for. If you buy a used handgun,you can protect yourself by having the gun checked out by a competent smith. Or,in this case,better yet,call S+W and tell them you bought a used gun and you'd like it checked/restored for safety purposes. I suspect S+W would be delighted to protect their customer and reputation.It would not surprise me if the charged nothing,and thanked you.

Once again,with all support ,empathy,and respect for Cameon,we are not at the mercy of hack idiots (or whatever) if we own final responsibility for EVERYTHING.

Far out example,to illustrate. If I have a gunshow table,and some evil maggot slips a round into the chamber of one of my guns on display...that's bad!!. Ultimately,he is 99% responsible for any discharge. But ALL of us are responsible for the 4 rules. All of us should clear that gun on the gun show table,and all of us should treat it as loaded.Etc.

I say that without faulting Cameon. Heal well,and keep shooting,Cameon.
 
This is a good thread with a number of valuable lessons, so I am hesitant to ask about overly specific details. But if the original poster is willing to comment, I would like to know how the striker block safety was defeated. Obviously, the sear shown in the video was incorrectly modified and defective. But guns have multiple safeties because sometimes sears can fail.

Of course, these details about the striker block are not important to the important lessons of this thread, so I fully understand if the OP prefers not to comment.
 
With over 22K views on FB and close to 30K views on FB, it seems like we got the point across. I spent the bulk of my day explaining to gunsmiths and officials from shooting sports organizations exactly what occurred. She had a rough day and is still getting tons of messages.

She posted this on her own FB page last night...

First, thank you to everyone who has reached out to me today with support, prayers, and well-wishes. Those who have asked questions, I will get to you soon. It's still difficult at times to discuss and today has been overwhelming. Second, today has been an emotional taxing day for me. I knew when I made the video and it was published some individuals who find it necessary to personally attack me. It was one of the main reasons I kept this to myself. I realize I made mistakes, such as not having the gun completely checked by a gunsmith and relying on someone elses word, and I'm not trying to shirk responsibility. Part of the blame lies with me. I could have kept silent. I could have continued to simply tell everyone I was injured and leave it at that. But that's not my nature. I opened myself up to ridicule, bashing, and personal attacks so others would be aware of the potential catastrophe consequences of D-I-Y gunsmithing. The takeaway from this video should be 1) Extreme caution should be taken if you feel the need to practice D-I-Y gunsmithing 2) Have used firearms checked by a qualified gunsmith 3) Make sure you have the appropriate trauma kits at the range and know how to use them. If my name and character has to be attacked for people to be made aware and think critically about these issues, then that's my burden and I'll accept it. Once again, thank you and keep sharing.
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As to aftermarket kits, some are not safe, some are. The point is that in striker fired pistols, a simple detail strip may not be sufficient for even a skilled person to see that the take-up is too far. I have known about this for 9 months and at Cameon's request, did not tell anyone what happened to her. But, when I saw her shooting video prior to the accident, the gun, the sear, the holster, I pretty much knew what had happened.

But also realize that I work on gun failures for a living and also design and have advanced materials knowledge. I have to temper what I see with common sense at times. If I described every gun incident, home explosion, CO poisoning, etc. accident I worked on, half of you would go crawl in bed and stay there for a few days. I don't even tell my wife most of the stuff I work on. 200+ fatal cases over the years piles up, and in most cases there is some legal reason I can not describe what occurred and in most of the others, my clients will not give me a release to discuss cases in a public forum.

This case is unique in that there was a top level shooter present who made relevant observations, all the evidence was preserved and there is no legal proceeding as a result. That is, predominantly why I can discuss this case in detail, with Cameon's blessing, to help the shooting public.
 
Striker Blocks...

In striker fired pistols, there is a plunger with a spring that has a narrowed section which, when depressed, allows the striker to pass through and ignite the primer. In many forms of competition, there are some who argue, and DO completely remove this plunger and others who remove the spring that keeps the plunger in place. Removal reduced the trigger pull, but also removes one of the "passive" safeties.

The plunger is normally pressed further into the slide by a bump on the trigger bar so that when the striker is released, it is out of the way. Many people (and aftermarket kits) have adjustable take-up which moves the trigger bar to the rear and can depress the plunger, even with no pressure on the trigger. Some kits add material to the trigger bar to defeat and or reduce the amount of force needed to overcome the plunger spring force.

When you see someone boasting that they have a striker fired pistol with a trigger pull weight below about 2.3 pounds, rest assured that their trigger has a softened plunger spring, no plunger spring, no plunger, or the take-up adjusted too far. I have seen all of these occurrences on pistols, and none of them are safe.

So those of you who have pointed out the striker block...yes, it was a problem too, but the specifics as to which method, I prefer not to state in an open forum. I have laid out the possibilities above and that should suffice to educate those who are concerned or wish to be educated on the topic. And yes, those possibilities can be combined.
 
HiBC said:
Between the guy who modified the gun and the shop who resold it without checking it out,they share 99.999% responsibility. You don't "cut your losses" and sell something that is not right. If you can't make it right,chop saw it before you pass on an unsafe gun.There is not a S+W M+P on this planet worth someone getting hurt over.
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I was under the impression that she bought the gun directly from the previous owner, not through a gun shop. However, if she had bought it through a gun shop I still would not assign any responsibility/liability to the shop. Very few gun shop owners are also gunsmiths, fully qualified to work on every firearm that passes through their doors. I would venture a guess that the majority of gun shops across the country are operations too small to even employ a gunsmith on the premises. I have dealt with (ummm... counting fingers) six one-man operation FFLs in my county. Not one of them makes any claims at being a gunsmith, nor do any of them offer gunsmithing services. Used firearms are sold as-is, and I think that's completely reasonable.

Once a shop "inspects" a used firearm and pronounces it "safe," that's when they start to assume responsibility/liability. Why would they want to do that? The responsibility lies 100 percent with the doofus who butchered the gun -- let the liability remain where it belongs.
 
I'm with Aguila on this. I really don't expect a shop to do more than function test a pistol. In fact every store in my area states when you buy a used firearm that each firearm has not been tested with live ammunition. One store does warranty used firearms for 30 days, but the rest sell "As-Is". In literally dozens of used pistols bought (probably somewhere around 40-50) I have seen two pistols with function issues. One was a Browning Hi Power where the safety wouldn't engage at times and the other was a SIG SP2022 where the hammer was following the slide. Both of those passed function tests when I bought them. While I think caution is advisable when buying used, in my case problem firearms were by far the minority.
 
From what you've described so far, MarkCO, I am guessing the striker block was only partially disengaged, not completely, and that the earlier instances of dead triggers were where the sear slipped but the block caught the firing pin?
 
Possibly.

I tested a geometry in another case where the FP block was removed and the striker was slipping off the sear. With a very tight grip, the pistol would double or triple sometimes. With a loose grip, just a dead trigger with a light dimple on the primer. It becomes a timing thing as the striker is slipping off the sear before the round is in the chamber fully.
 
An eye opening thread to say the least.

An honest thanks goes out to Cameon and Markco for sharing this experience so others could learn from it.
 
I've never had a gun messed up like this was before, and most of my guns have been bought used. I will check them all when I get them even more closely than I already do. Most all of the stuff I see done to guns is clipped hammer springs, social security numbers on the sides where you can see them, or the name of the owner, etc. Most all of the issues have been simple things or are just cosmetic.

Having suffered through a nerve injury to my leg, it's not a sure thing that the nerve will ever come back for her. The nerve in my right leg, I think it's the femoral nerve, was damaged/crushed when I fell in 2007. It took over 3 years for me to really know what my lower leg was doing (I couldn't feel where my leg was and fell down all the time when walking when my knee wasn't locked up) and almost 10 years later, my knee is still semi-numb, and probably is going to stay that way.

This kind of stuff is scary. If you don't check your guns or have them checked after reading the OP and watching the video, it's your own fault if something happens.
 
...that's why when you buy those parts there are notifications on the bags (typically) reminding you that what you're doing is at your own risk...
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And the risk of those around you any time you are using the firearm. And the risk of future owners and anyone who is around them when they are using the firearm.

It's a sobering thought--or it should be. It's also worth remembering that humans are not always very good at self-assessing their own competence. So confidence in one's own skill/experience can be misplaced. Read about the Dunning-Kruger effect for a more in-depth discussion of that topic.
 
Thanks for the video it was very enlightening.

I must add that this woman as a great attitude after what she had been thru. Not sure I would feel the same way.
 
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