About to be first time owner...advice?

D

DanPop

New member
First gun purchase, looking for a 9mm sub-compact. I understand that striker fired is preferred over hammer fired but that hammer fired is safer...true?
I have it narrowed down to a Ruger LC9 or LC9s, Beretta Nano or Pico. One goal is to stay under $500 so I'm ruling out a Sig or S&W. I'm liking the new Glock 43 but again....do I want striker fired?

All advice will be welcomed.
 
They are all as safe as the user. Striker, hammer, it's a matter of preference. Go handle a few and see what feels right to you. Beware of gun store BS. Why a subcompact? Is this intended as a carry gun? Be aware that these micro 9's can be pretty lively and are not the greatest for learning. I'm wearing a KelTec PF9 right now. They get gar mouthed a lot, but mine has been reliable. But it's a very personal choice.
 
You may have opened a can of worms.

You are going to find diverse opinions on what trigger/firing mechanism is "preferred" or "safer" for the user. There is much disagreement, some vehement.

When it comes to user safety, at least two considerations arise. One is what type of manual of arms will allow the user to quickly put the pistol into action in a tense situation should the need arise. Another consideration is what type of action is least likely to result in an accidental/negligent discharge.

There are exceptions but most striker-fired pistols have no external manual safety. Some view a manual safety as a potential hazard in that you may forget to disengage it in an emergency situation. Others feel an external safety provides some additional insurance against an accidental discharge.

Most striker-fired pistols have a consistent trigger pull. There are some exceptions, such as the Walther P99 which behaves more like a traditional double action hammer-fired pistol in that the first trigger pull is longer and heavier than the subsequent trigger pulls.

Hammer-fired autoloaders come in various flavors. A double action only (DAO) pistol has a consistent trigger action with a pull that is longer and heavier than single action only (SAO) or the subsequent shots from a traditional double action or double action/single action (DA/SA) pistol. Proponents of DAO or DA/SA pistols feel that the longer and heavier trigger pull mitigates against an accidental discharge. The DA/SA pistol allows for quicker follow up shots as all shots after the first are single action. But they also require the shooter to master the transition from the first DA to the subsequent SA shots, and that is easier for some than others.

Most DAO hammer fired pistols have no external safety. Most DA/SA pistols have either a safety, a decocker, or both. The decocker allows one to safely drop the hammer on a chambered round, which is something you want to do if you want to stop shooting but still have rounds in the magazine or a round in the chamber. Many people who carry DA/SA pistols with a manual safety will carry with the safety disengaged relying on the long DA trigger pull of the first shot to guard against an accidental discharge.

The majority of striker-fired pistols do not have second strike capability. This is the ability to have a second chance to fire a chambered round in the event of a light primer strike (again, there are exceptions). Hammer-fired DAO and DA/SA pistols do allow second strike capability. Some feel second strike capability is worthless and it is better to just cycle the slide and chamber a fresh round since there is no guarantee that the primer will go off at the second strike in which case a second trigger pull would just waste time.

Some feel that hammer-fired guns are safer in that they are less likely to result in an accidental discharge while reholstering. There have been a number of individuals who have accidentally shot themselves in the foot, or worse, when reholstering a striker-fired pistol when a drawstring, piece of clothing, or a portion of a holster made its way into the trigger guard. With a DA/SA pistol with external safety you can leave the safety on until the pistol is fully reholstered, then disengage it if you choose. With a DAO pistol, you can keep your thumb on the back of the hammer, or the back of the slide in the case of a bobbed hammer, while reholstering which will prevent the hammer from accidentally getting cocked.

I haven't mentioned single action only (SAO) pistols. I personally don't consider those a good first pistol choice for concealed carry, although many might disagree.

So you will need to weigh the advantages and disadvantages of various actions and decide for yourself what is "preferred" and "safest" for you. I would suggest you try to shoot a variety of pistols with different manual of arms to get a feel for them. Just remember that most individuals are perhaps more at risk to accidentally shoot themselves than they are having to shoot at a threat. If you do find yourself in a critical situation you are much more likely to accidentally pull the trigger than you will be at the range.
 
pblanc gives a lot of good advice. I would add that you are well served to go to a range that has a variety and not only handle them, but rent/shoot them. You may be surprised how a given gun handles and feels in your hand. Does it point naturally for you? That can be a big help in low light or high stress situations in getting the first shot on target. Does the slide or trigger bite you? How you grip a gun makes a difference. I shot a friend's compact pistol yesterday and the slide whacks my thumb knuckle because of how I grip it. He has no such problem. Everybody's different. The right gun will make itself known to you in how it feels, shoots and operates for you. And trying different gus is fun too. Most of all, you won't waste money buying a gun you end up not liking or are unlikely to practice with, because you don't enjoy shooting it.
 
"Why a subcompact?"

Concealment

"There are exceptions but most striker-fired pistols have no external manual safety."

The LC9 and LC9s both have external safeties, and that is where I am leaning.

Thank you.
 
If you do get one - you need to practice with it. If you get an external safety - you need to esp. practice removing it in an emergency (and not shooting yourself).

For a first time gun owner - get thee to a good basics class and that will be more important than a whole lot of gun babble that occurs with first purchase questions.

See if you can try some at a rental range.
 
Pblanc, that is a thorough rendition of several years of these postings....thanks.

Let's talk order of business....
First, as nice as we are on the firing line, it might be a better choice to get started with a nra basic pistol class. These are a seriously cheap way to get off on the right foot.

Then you need to buy a gun. I would suggest something mid to full size. S&W K frame, Taurus 92, Beretta 92, Glock 17 or 19, 1911(buy a good $1000+ one), XD9, etc. You buy this gun to shoot.

Then, honestly, you will need to shoot 100 million rounds...joking slightly. You will need to train/practice to get to a competent level.

Now, you think ccw. Most knowledgible ccw guys carry guns in the above mentioned group, but many carry something compact. So, either commit to carry the above gun or buy a subcompact.

Now practice/class/train with the subcompact for a million rounds and 200+ carry rounds.

I guess I'm saying to get something out of carrying, you have to learn the gun and develop your system.

You can shortcut to an lc9, throw out the training and carry in a $5 holster and never practice, but then what do you have? Self defense shooting is about reacting to a threat, executing a predetermined plan of action, possibly requiring drawing and shooting....milliseconds separate being shot where you stand and success.

That is all comparable to keeping your car in your lane. How often do you practice that?
 
"Why a subcompact?"

Concealment
Click to expand...

You'd be surprised at how easy some of the slightly larger guns are to conceal (Glock 26, M&P, etc.). I have a G26 and G42, and have only carried the G42 a handful of times as it isn't that much smaller when carried IWB. I was on a single stack kick for awhile, but now have gravitated back to the larger frames and carry a Sig P239 (single stack, but similar in size to a G26). I prefer the way they fit my hand, and the thicker grip helps keep the gun from shifting around while firing. Obviously this will vary from person to person, but FWIW my wife is the only one who has preferred shooting the G42 over anything else I own. The rest have preferred something similar to a G26.

If you get a chance to shoot them back to back, that is the best way to make a decision. There are so many holster combinations available that just about any compact and below can adequately be concealed. I use either a Fist Kydex Holster (for Sig) or a RCS Vanguard Holster (for Glock) and carry AIWB.
 
The guns you mention are to me more pocket pistols than subcompacts. Being able to conceal a firearm is important, but many very small pistols can be punishing to shoot for extended periods as well as less forgiving of poor fundamentals. For a first gun purchase they may be detrimental for those reasons. If possible find a public range that does rentals so you can figure out for yourself. Renting pistols does cost money, but it's cheaper than buying a pistol only to find you don't care for it and you end up going through a number of options before finding what works for you.
 
+200,000 for taking a class BEFORE you purchase.

Most good classes have a variety of guns to handle and shoot. This experience will go a LOT farther than anything you will ever be able to read on the internet or listen to in a gun shop.
 
A sub-compact is not a good choice for new or inexperienced owners. They are the hardest to shoot of any of them. You need a larger gun until you get some valuable experience and guidance. I would suggest something at least as large as a S&W SD9VE or a Glock 19. You will quickly learn what limp-wristing is and how to correct it (because of the light weight). They also make a pretty good IBW carry gun. If you go straight to a sub-compact, you will probably never enjoy guns as they were intended because you will think all guns are hard to shoot and all are inaccurate.
 
How you plan on concealing the gun makes a big difference in any advice I would give. You are looking at guns that can be pocket-carried (I have a Nano which I carry in the pocket if I do carry it - my experience is that I have better options and I would not suggest it as a first choice for a CC gun).

Unless pocket carry is your only option I would go for a larger gun for a first choice and go the IWB route. Almost all the compact 9mms can be carried IWB as easy as a sub-compact and give you better recoil control, longer sight-radius, more capacity and are more reliable. There are lots a options with DA/SA triggers if that makes you feel safer (I was in that boat when I first started, too).

If you go the sub-compact route - PRACTICE alot. Boat loads of the sub-compacts have been sold but I never see them at the range so it makes me cringe thinking how many are out there waiting to be shot by people that can't hit the proverbial side of a barn with them.
 
I have a PF-9 and a CW 9 Khar . I carry the PF-9 more . Have had Kahr a couple years and just not comfortable with the trigger . I carry but still prefer the longer trigger pull of PF-9 .
Some people complain about recoil of the PF-9 I don't think any worst than a LTW 38 snub with +P .


PF-9 owners It will fit in compact 1911 holsters . I have a Miami Classic shoulder for my 1911. Normally a Colt Defender in their . I tried and PF-9 fit prefect. PF-9 weights about 18 ounce loaded . Don't even know your have in on in a shoulder rig.

I am carrying at present in my Defender IWB holster.
 
Spend your money to take the NRA Basic Pistol Shooting Course. This course teaches the basic knowledge, skills, and attitude for safely owning and operating your pistol.

This course is about 8-hours long and includes classroom and range time learning to shoot revolvers and semi-automatic pistols. The students learn the NRA’s rules for safe gun handling; pistol parts and operation; ammunition; shooting fundamentals; range rules; shooting from the bench rest position, and two handed standing positions. The course covers cleaning the pistol; and gives the students continued opportunities for skill development. Students will receive the NRA Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting handbook, NRA Gun Safety Rules brochure, Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification booklet, take a Basics of Pistol Shooting Student Examination, and course completion certificate.

I strongly encourage all firearms enthusiasts to avail themselves of this outstanding training when it is made available to them!
 
I would not recommend a Glock type trigger to a newbie. AD (accidental discharge) is too common, happened to someone I indirectly know in recent years.
 
My centerfire pistols were bought with concealed carry in mind. I found that even a full-size pistol can be concealed easily when carried IWB. I decided to stay away from subcompacts and pocket pistols, because they were not tall enough to afford me a full, 3-fingered grip. I ended up with compacts, which is a good compromise. They are a bit easier to conceal, but allow for a full grip, still have a good capacity, and enough heft to make for pleasant range guns. Concealability is so good that I have pretty much abandoned IWB carry for more comfy OWB carry.

Whatever you buy don't worry too much, because you'll likely want to get something a bit smaller or larger later to fill a niche. I'd focus on which manual of arms you prefer -- an affirmative external safety or not. If you are new to firearms, I'd avoid guns with short and light trigger pulls that have no affirmative external safety.
 
I have quite a few suggestions.

I get tired of hearing everyone always answer with get training. Not a bad idea (actually a great idea) but still doesn't answer your question.

If you have to have a carry gun right now and dont have much experience with handguns and you are worried about safetys/double action for safety I suggest just go ahead and get a snub nose revolver. I will probably have a few people jump on this and say revolvers are awful defensive weapons, they are wrong, revolvers are great and reliable, they shoot when you pull the trigger and are a safe and reliable carry option. most defensive uses for a handgun are within watergun distance, what I mean by that is they most often happen within a distance that you could hit them with a water gun if thats all you had. in that situation the snub nose revolver would be perfect. I would couple the revolver with a good ruger mark iii to get your shooting fundamentals down.

here are some revolvers in the $200ish range:

http://www.slickguns.com/product/ta...volver-2in-5-round-blue-21783-w-taurus-rebate
http://www.slickguns.com/product/ar...blued-alloy-frame-wood-grips-fixed-sights-219

heres a ruger .22LR:
http://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperst...ruger-2245-mark-iii-target-22lr-molded-5.5-in

The .22 is cheap to shoot and extremely accurate which would allow a lot more shots down range and get you some great practice.

Next suggestion is a sig p250:

A compact hammer fired 9mm with a double action trigger only, made by sig, extremely accurate, and under $500. Great choice for a carry gun and a great shooter. its bigger than you originally posted about but with an alien gear holster($35) it should conceal quite well.

Next would be a smith and wesson shield:
GREAT carry gun, not a great range gun for many reasons other people have already covered. comes with either a safety or not whichever you prefer! Get it if you a determined to get a single stack 9.

last suggestion would be a glock 19 because its the do everything gun, I carry it daily and love it, also the smith and wesson sd9ve is a great budget alternative to the glock 19.

Ok the glock isn't the last suggestion. Sig sp2022, polymer DA/SA hammer fired sig. easily found for under $500.
 
I've seen screamin' deals on Shields lately, and the people that own them seem to love them, so I would consider one! While I do recommend some instruction before you take the plunge, you should consider that what everyone says is true. Small 9mm autos are pretty punishing and are intended for close contact distances - so not really conducive to learning the fundamentals of marksmanship. You will find a full size pistol much easier to learn on. I've owned a PF9 in the past and I absolutely loathed pulling the trigger on it. I recently purchased a LCP because of its small size and cheap cost. I'd hate to see my CCW Sig go to the police if, god forbid, I have to use it. I could care less what happens to the LCP because they are cheap and readily available.
 
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