A Word To The Wise--Blowups Happen
- Thread starter Robert Foote
- Start date
Hi, guys,
You rang? I heard my name being bandied about!
I think I said that about obstructions in a different thread, but it is true that an obstructed barrel will not always blow. There are a lot of factors involved. There is the famous S&W Victory Model with six bullets in the barrel; the barrel finally split, but did not "blow apart".
I have seen a case of a wadcutter bullet stuck in a barrel blown out by the next shot. Two bullets hit the 25 yard target. As far as the owner of the gun and I could determine, the K-38 suffered no damage, not even a ringed barrel.
I have seen other barrels that were ringed from shooting out a stuck bullet, but they did not blow. Even rifles don't always blow when shooting out obstructions. If the obstruction is such that the bullet actually touches it, it and the bullet will usually just be fired. If the obstruction is up the barrel, the barrel may burst or bulge, depending on barrel thickness and material, nature of the obstruction, etc.
I once drove five 250 grain .45 Colt bullets into the barrel of a .45 ACP pistol (Norinco), pounding them down until I could just get a live (GI) round into the chamber. Firing the gun into a sandbox left six bullets in the sandbox, and no damage to the pistol (though recoil was bad, not surprising with a 1480 grain bullet).
So I agree with saying that firing a live round with an obstructed barrel "could" cause the barrel to blow. But it depends on a lot of factors.
Jim
You rang? I heard my name being bandied about!
I think I said that about obstructions in a different thread, but it is true that an obstructed barrel will not always blow. There are a lot of factors involved. There is the famous S&W Victory Model with six bullets in the barrel; the barrel finally split, but did not "blow apart".
I have seen a case of a wadcutter bullet stuck in a barrel blown out by the next shot. Two bullets hit the 25 yard target. As far as the owner of the gun and I could determine, the K-38 suffered no damage, not even a ringed barrel.
I have seen other barrels that were ringed from shooting out a stuck bullet, but they did not blow. Even rifles don't always blow when shooting out obstructions. If the obstruction is such that the bullet actually touches it, it and the bullet will usually just be fired. If the obstruction is up the barrel, the barrel may burst or bulge, depending on barrel thickness and material, nature of the obstruction, etc.
I once drove five 250 grain .45 Colt bullets into the barrel of a .45 ACP pistol (Norinco), pounding them down until I could just get a live (GI) round into the chamber. Firing the gun into a sandbox left six bullets in the sandbox, and no damage to the pistol (though recoil was bad, not surprising with a 1480 grain bullet).
So I agree with saying that firing a live round with an obstructed barrel "could" cause the barrel to blow. But it depends on a lot of factors.
Jim
I once saw a PRIME example of why they changed the way they made jacketed ammo from semi-enclosed base to fully enclosed base jacketed ammo.
One of the shops I've frequented has a sort of disaster display shelf, on it are all manner of blow ups and FUBAR gun parts.
One of them is a 44Mag Ruger Blackhawk barrel that must have atleast 12-14 bullet stuck in it's bore. In the very front you can see a stuck jacket and then from there things get sorta compacted and get hard to count.
They milled away the barrel so you can count most of the jackets but the things just keep going and going from about 2 inches from the muzzle all the way back down the barrel to where the forcing cone is.
The story to go along with it? These gentlemen were shooting at road signs as they drove down the road, not being able to spot there hits or check the hits they never knew that the bullets weren't exiting the barrel. Well, I guess they learned their lesson when the gun wouldn't open and it was beginning to spit all matter of debris out the sides of the barrel/cylinder gap.
I asked if the thing blew up on the shooter but I guess it didn't get that bad, don't know what type of ammo was being used but it's frightening all the same. The barrel was swollen but who knows at what round it began to get a buldge, and MAN is that a thick barrel!
I just wish I got a photograph of that barrel so I could keep it around for threads like this one.
One of the shops I've frequented has a sort of disaster display shelf, on it are all manner of blow ups and FUBAR gun parts.
One of them is a 44Mag Ruger Blackhawk barrel that must have atleast 12-14 bullet stuck in it's bore. In the very front you can see a stuck jacket and then from there things get sorta compacted and get hard to count.
They milled away the barrel so you can count most of the jackets but the things just keep going and going from about 2 inches from the muzzle all the way back down the barrel to where the forcing cone is.
The story to go along with it? These gentlemen were shooting at road signs as they drove down the road, not being able to spot there hits or check the hits they never knew that the bullets weren't exiting the barrel. Well, I guess they learned their lesson when the gun wouldn't open and it was beginning to spit all matter of debris out the sides of the barrel/cylinder gap.
I asked if the thing blew up on the shooter but I guess it didn't get that bad, don't know what type of ammo was being used but it's frightening all the same. The barrel was swollen but who knows at what round it began to get a buldge, and MAN is that a thick barrel!
I just wish I got a photograph of that barrel so I could keep it around for threads like this one.
Desert Pete
New member
quote:
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I once drove five 250 grain .45 Colt bullets into the barrel of a .45 ACP pistol (Norinco), pounding them down until I could just get a live (GI) round into the chamber. Firing the gun into a sandbox left six bullets in the sandbox, and no damage to the pistol (though recoil was bad, not surprising with a 1480 grain bullet).
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Huh? What possible reason could there be for a sane man to do that?
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I once drove five 250 grain .45 Colt bullets into the barrel of a .45 ACP pistol (Norinco), pounding them down until I could just get a live (GI) round into the chamber. Firing the gun into a sandbox left six bullets in the sandbox, and no damage to the pistol (though recoil was bad, not surprising with a 1480 grain bullet).
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Huh? What possible reason could there be for a sane man to do that?
Hi, Desert Pete,
For the same reason most people experiment - to see what will happen. Firing was done through an arm hole in a heavy steel box, using a very heavy glove. Grips removed and magazine out. FWIW, I expected a bulged or split barrel. Didn't happen.
That experiment was my first attempt to stop bullet movement to show that a recoil operated pistol won't operate unless the bullet moves. That experiment didn't do that, obviously, so I developed another way of totally blocking bullet movement. Yep, the gun does not function or the slide move unless the bullet moves.
I forgot to mention that the gun was a Norinco, but I used a worn WWII HS barrel.
Jim
For the same reason most people experiment - to see what will happen. Firing was done through an arm hole in a heavy steel box, using a very heavy glove. Grips removed and magazine out. FWIW, I expected a bulged or split barrel. Didn't happen.
That experiment was my first attempt to stop bullet movement to show that a recoil operated pistol won't operate unless the bullet moves. That experiment didn't do that, obviously, so I developed another way of totally blocking bullet movement. Yep, the gun does not function or the slide move unless the bullet moves.
I forgot to mention that the gun was a Norinco, but I used a worn WWII HS barrel.
Jim
In college, in the "police firearms course" i had 1, and my best friend had 2 squib loads with the college's reloads...
both of his, and my one squibs were in Ruger KP-89 pistols...
He had the first... resulting in a bullet about half way down the barrel... this happened during practice on the day of a "competitive" shoot against local officers for "training" for all of us...
my buddy, a GREAT pistol shot was not about to miss the shoot due to an obstructed barre... (a blown one maybe... but not obstructed) so, his answer was to shoot the offending bullet out with a live round...
end result - a funny sounding report, and 2 holes in the 7yd. target from 1 report...
upon inspection, there was NOTHING wrong with his gun... not even a ring in the barrel...
2 weeks or so later, he and I each got a squib on the same day...
We shot them both clear with NO apparent adverse results...
conclusions:
1. Rugers are built like TANKS!
2. Obstructed barrels CAN be dangerous, but aren't always!
3. Though I owned other guns, the Ruger is the ONLY one I would do this to... (cheap, easy to fix/replace, and STOUT AS HELL!)
both of his, and my one squibs were in Ruger KP-89 pistols...
He had the first... resulting in a bullet about half way down the barrel... this happened during practice on the day of a "competitive" shoot against local officers for "training" for all of us...
my buddy, a GREAT pistol shot was not about to miss the shoot due to an obstructed barre... (a blown one maybe... but not obstructed) so, his answer was to shoot the offending bullet out with a live round...
end result - a funny sounding report, and 2 holes in the 7yd. target from 1 report...
upon inspection, there was NOTHING wrong with his gun... not even a ring in the barrel...
2 weeks or so later, he and I each got a squib on the same day...
We shot them both clear with NO apparent adverse results...
conclusions:
1. Rugers are built like TANKS!
2. Obstructed barrels CAN be dangerous, but aren't always!
3. Though I owned other guns, the Ruger is the ONLY one I would do this to... (cheap, easy to fix/replace, and STOUT AS HELL!)
I think Hemicuda's experience was with light wadcutter loads. With heavy loads, the story might have been different.
I have shot stuck bullets out of barrels, but NOT with another bullet. For revolvers, I load a case with about 1.5 gr of Bullseye, with no wad, and then fire. Seems to work and I have never had a burst barrel. But I prefer to drive out the bullet with a wood or brass rod (as near bore diameter if possible). Don't use a cleaning rod as they will almost always wander off and (if steel) damage the rifling.
Jim
I have shot stuck bullets out of barrels, but NOT with another bullet. For revolvers, I load a case with about 1.5 gr of Bullseye, with no wad, and then fire. Seems to work and I have never had a burst barrel. But I prefer to drive out the bullet with a wood or brass rod (as near bore diameter if possible). Don't use a cleaning rod as they will almost always wander off and (if steel) damage the rifling.
Jim
Rugers built like tanks? You betcha. Back in the mid 80's a gun mag tapped and torqued a bolt into the end of a P85 then touched it off to see what would happen. It blew the extractor. Once a new one was installed and the bolt removed it shot just fine thereafter. I had only been reloading for long guns and revolvers up until then and was looking for a good solid auto pistol. I bought it. Ran a couple test loads through it which approached factory .357 velocities. Good gun, but I'd use a wooden dowel myself to remove any barrel obstructions.
As far as fearing double loads go, ya gotta love that Blue Dot powder. Many of the loads I build with it are compressed and I get pretty darn good performance.
As far as fearing double loads go, ya gotta love that Blue Dot powder. Many of the loads I build with it are compressed and I get pretty darn good performance.
hitnthexring
New member
Careful? A careful handloader doesn't use a progressive press which makes it unlikely that powder charges can be checked before bullet seating.
Peter M. Eick
New member
Target has a nice high intensity clamp on light for sale right now for college kids. It will clamp perfectly to my pro2000 and allows most of the light to be aimed down the casing after charging. The only ones I cannot see the powder charge well in is 38 special. All of the rest of the ones I reload I can see the charge visually easily prior to loading the bullet.
Conisder getting one next time you are out.
Conisder getting one next time you are out.
Freightman
New member
I had a squib load once, drove it out with a dowel but after that I have been double careful.
I had a progressive but I do not shoot thousands of rounds per month I sold it and load with a single. I load for relaxation not speed and the single stage works for me and I have had no more squibbs.
I had a progressive but I do not shoot thousands of rounds per month I sold it and load with a single. I load for relaxation not speed and the single stage works for me and I have had no more squibbs.
Regarding progressive presses, squib loads & double-charges - there are lockout dies that will prevent the latter for many progressive press applications. It doesn't hurt to eyeball the just-filled case before pulling the crank again either!
Our "choice" of powder detemines the amount of volume the powder occupies in a case. Sometimes the load that doesn't leave enough room to seat the bullet works best, whereas at other times the load that would allow enough empty case volume for a triple charge seems to work really well. For me, discovering these magical combinations is what makes handloading such a rewarding hobby. And since I wish to continue this hobby, I also "choose" to be safe, and never compromise safety for the sake of speed.
I feel equally safe using my progressive or C frame. Any yes, I still use both.
Our "choice" of powder detemines the amount of volume the powder occupies in a case. Sometimes the load that doesn't leave enough room to seat the bullet works best, whereas at other times the load that would allow enough empty case volume for a triple charge seems to work really well. For me, discovering these magical combinations is what makes handloading such a rewarding hobby. And since I wish to continue this hobby, I also "choose" to be safe, and never compromise safety for the sake of speed.
I feel equally safe using my progressive or C frame. Any yes, I still use both.
I had a scare while at the range with my S&W M38-3. Rated for +P. Using Georgia Arms 110gr +P. Difficult to extract, when I did the case was ruptured. Looking through the rounds I had left, I noticed an assortment of cases R-P, WW, +P, +P+. So, moral of my story is I am no longer using GA Arms!
Mannlicher
New member
As others have said, I am very glad your friend is ok.
These things do happen. Some years back, when building up a load for my 7X57 Ackley, I misjudged the powder charge, putting in 57 grains of 3031, instead of the 54 I thought I was reading on the digital scale. Talk about an eye opener! I have been MUCH more observent since then.
In some 40 years of hand loading, that has been my only screw up. Lucky, I know, but I like to think careful too, with that one exception. Just as in other human endevors, it only takes one lapse of attention to cause disaster.
These things do happen. Some years back, when building up a load for my 7X57 Ackley, I misjudged the powder charge, putting in 57 grains of 3031, instead of the 54 I thought I was reading on the digital scale. Talk about an eye opener! I have been MUCH more observent since then.
In some 40 years of hand loading, that has been my only screw up. Lucky, I know, but I like to think careful too, with that one exception. Just as in other human endevors, it only takes one lapse of attention to cause disaster.
Edward429451
Moderator
Never had a double charge or squib load. I shoot about 75% reloads. Eyeing the charge to be not overflowing or way too low is no big trick on a 550. Just get used to doing it then it only takes a micro second to glance at it. Hardly slows me down at all.