A transferrable MG in California?

Machineguntony

New member
I have come upon a situation, and I was hoping some of the SOT/FFL holders on this site could help me.

I have tentatively made a deal to buy a transferrable machine gun. This MG is currently located in California, and is being held by a SOT on a form 3.

I thought transferrable MGs could not be transferred into California. I know they can't be transferred to a civilian in California. Can they be transferred to an FFL/SOT?

I am trying to verify this gun, and it makes me a bit nervous. There are people/scammers who are very good at pretending to be FFLs, or who steal identities of real FFLs. I really want this gun, but I am going to run every possible test to verify the gun first.

Thanks.
 
The seller says that they are a LE SOT FFL and they only allow visits by LE or government agencies. I've verified the business, but I can't verify that it is actually him.
 
The seller says that they are a LE SOT FFL and they only allow visits by LE or government agencies.

Can you find contact info independently of the contact you made via the advertisement? If so, call them using that info and verify that they are who you talked with re the sale.

I think a refusal to allow you to come & inspect the firearm on your own dime would be a red flag.
 
The seller says that they are a LE SOT FFL and they only allow visits by LE or government agencies. I've verified the business, but I can't verify that it is actually him.

That by itself sounds Suspicious. I cant imagine any business that is trying to sell an item not allowing a visit. Lets face it...this is not some secret squirrel/CIA/NSA deal. He is a SOT.

Id find the company contact info (from a source other then the seller). Call them and speak to someone in charge.

If they wont allow a visit its a scam!!!
 
This kind of transaction calls for dealing with the SOT face-to-face or using an escrow agent. There are way too many scammers out there right now pretending to sell machine guns to ignore "hinkey feelings".

My suggestion is to first ask about the seller here: http://sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/general.cgi. Then read Buddy's faq about how to spot a scammer in that same forum.
 
Buying NFA machine guns can be nasty business. I will tell you about this, so as to warn potential newbies, who want to get into the hobby.

So I asked the seller to meet me in a parking lot to show me the gun, just to prove that he really owned the gun. I said that if I couldn't come onto his premises, how about meet me in a parking lot? He refused.

He did send me a picture of the gun with a requested hand sign. I was still nervous, as if he was a scammer, he could have posed as fake buyer, called up a real seller, who he found, and asked for a picture of the gun with my requested hand sign. *the version of this scam happens a lot in real estate: a fake landlord calls up a real landlord pretending to be a renter, then gets access to the property; the fake landlord then poses as a real landlord, and shows off the real house to a real renter. The real renter turns over first months, last months, and a deposit to the fake landlord. Obviously, when the real landlord finds out, the real renter is evicted and out the money.

The gun was an M14 that was allegedly uncut. I will not mention the seller, as I do not know if he was real.

I then call up a nationally known dealer. The nationally known dealer points me to some very good facts. If you ever want to buy an M14, read this article...

http://www.fulton-armory.com/\faqs\M1G-FAQs\Weld.htm

The nationally known dealer tells me a horror story about how he bought an M16 from this seller. The nationally known dealer received the M16 in junk condition and not in the represented condition. The dealer says that before I ship a penny, that I must inspect the gun and bring an expert because I could likely be buying a cut gun. Apparently a well welded gun is almost impossible to tell that it has been welded. He says that I should also do a FOIA to find out if the gun is cut and welded (read the above article). The nationally known dealer said to not trust this seller, even if he is real.

On a side note, how would a FOIA request show if a gun was cut and welded?

I call the seller at the listed phone number on the FFL. I leave two voice messages and ask him to call me back from from the caller ID of the FFL listed number. I make this request very clear in my email, and the seller emails back and says explicitly that he will call me back from his FFL listed number. The seller calls me back from a cell phone, NOT from the FFL listed phone number.

I then call up another known dealer who tells me that they have never heard of an FFL that prohibits civilian visits. There is no such FFL license, and point out that even Desert Ordnance allows civilian visits, and they are a contractor for many militaries in the world. They say that they would never buy this gun and they will not help me transfer this gun if I decide to take a chance on the gun.

The last dealer mentions something that was right in front of me, and I missed. I will state this without actually disclosing the name. The seller has been saying that I can not come onto his premises because he is a military and law enforcement FFL; however, the name of the FFL clearly states that they do movies and is not a law enforcement or military FFL. Without disclosing the name, imagine if the name of this FFL is MovieGunprops, Inc. I totally missed that.

I tell the seller that I can not buy this gun without an inspection. Even if he is real, I can not know if the gun is uncut. The guy curses me out and says some very nasty things. He then puts me on his blacklist and says he will never sell me a gun ever. Apparently, he also banned someone else from buying a gun from him.

Now...I did not mention names...and I will keep all names confidential. If the dealer is reading this and wants to contest what I am writing, I have full emails that I am willing to post, if names aren't kept confidential. I even offered, not once, but twice, to meet in a parking lot to have my person inspect the gun. I don't think it is too unreasonable to request that I lay eyes on the gun.
 
He banned you from buying? What's not to like about that?

Does the FBI need to hear about this guy? Offering to sell fake machine guns interstate has got to be interesting.
 
First of all, meeting in a parking lot to inspect a registered machine gun is NOT a good idea. If I were the buyer, I'd agree to meet: 1) on the Seller's commercial premises; 2) at some other legitimate gun store who will be handing the transfer to be arranged by Seller. If the Seller can't make this happen, then RUN FORREST RUN!
 
I could imagine meeting the seller with the gun in the parking lot of his place of business, since they forbid entry to "civilians". Surely their parking lot would be close enough not to cause them any heart-ache?

Sounds like you are better off to pass... and even to be banned. :D
 
How would a FOIA show if the gun was cut and welded

The date of the first form. If the gun is a reweld, it will have been registered on a date that is years different from what the date the SN on the goes back to.
 
Willie, I never knew this, but it sure makes sense. Thanks!

You know, from my understanding there's really nothing wrong with a good reweld, if you get it for a reasonable price. You're really paying for a license to own and shoot a particular kind of full-auto. What was the asking price of the M14?
 
Thanks, Willie. I never knew that either.

Skans, according to that article I linked, the author claims that there is no such thing as a good reweld. He argues that they can not be shot safely and that eventually, the welding will give way.
 
Machineguntony, do you have a link to the article? I'd really like to read that.

I saw an M14 sell for right around $11,000 several years ago at RIA - I was considering it; but I knew nothing about the possibility of a re-weld, or possible problems mentioned.
 
Back
Top