A reminder to DOUBLE and TRIPLE check a "safe" gun!

Theo,

Not trying to bust your balls here, but I want to be very, very clear. If you are checking the gun and then dry firing without a safe direction, you are not following the safety rules all the time. You and Dakota both made it plain that you dry fire without having a safe backstop. That means that both of you have developed a physical habit of not following the four rules. Specifically, every time either of you dry fire without a safe backstop, you violate rules two, three, and four.

You put your finger on the trigger when you have not chosen a target. What is a target? A target is the safest place for a bullet to land in your environment. You have not chosen such a spot, even if you have taped a piece of paper to the wall. That's rule two.

You allow the muzzle to point at things you are not willing to destroy. That would be rule three.

And, of course, there is rule four: safe backstop. In Dakota's case, he points the gun at a wall that he knows damn well will not stop a bullet. In your case, you dry fire inside an apartment surrounded by other people, and you have not made the effort to create a safe backstop inside that apartment.

Checking the gun's status and then proceeding to violate rules two, three, and four, is not "following ALL the safety rules all the time." It is breaking ALL the rules, every time you do it. When you do that, you put your entire faith in your personal ability to be absolutely perfect, and gamble other people's lives on the supposition that you will never, ever, ever make a mistake when you check to see that the gun is unloaded. There are four rules for a reason. That reason is: humans make mistakes. The rules are designed to interlock and overlap, so that nobody gets killed when somebody makes a mistake.

I know both of you are good people, and would never intentionally endanger anyone. Yet that is exactly what both of you are doing. Quibbling about how carefully you check the gun, does not change the reality that both of you are regularly, deliberately breaking the other three rules. You just differ in how carefully you do it.

In my house, I do have a sand bucket. It is disguised as an ordinary, somewhat large, houseplant. The houseplant is set inside a very large decorative basket that hides a 5 gallon bucket of sand. That is where I load and unload my gun when I need to handle it. You can set up similar things with a box full of newspapers or phone books. You can set up a book case full of books, and dry fire at the long and of the bookcase. Most handgun bullets will penetrate only a few inches in paper materials. You can invest in a purpose made product, such as the Safe Direction Academy Pad. There are options, no matter where you live.

pax
 
pax,
For the purpose of discussion, do you consider the bottom of a wall (where the crown molding is) facing outside to be a safe backstop? It's fired down at roughly a 30 degree angle and would immediately impact the ground outside. This still breaks the rule of not covering anything you don't want to destroy (the crown molding and the breaking the wall I was referring to) and I will acknowledge that.

Regardless, we have a cardboard box we fire our arrows into. I'll fill it with some old textbooks, magazines, phonebooks etc. before use next time. I'm simply curious academically

ETA: It is a one story building and on the other side of the wall is the yard
 
Sorry for misunderstanding.

I certainly didn't mean to imply you were unsafe, or pick apart your comments.

I tend to be a very literal person, sometimes to the dismay of others I work with.

And my point, which I failed to make, was that a careful check for unloaded status is all that is necessary. Multiple checks may make a person feel good, but imply you can't trust your own actions. So, does doing something you don't trust several times make it trustworthy?

Slow down, do it right. Use a flashlight if it's dark. Use your pinkie if you don't have a flashlight. It isn't rocket science, but it has to be done correctly.

My concern was solely based on the impression of a casual approach to something which should not be casual in nature. If you aren't doing that, then my concerns are unfounded. Carry on... :)

The unloaded status check is the only exception to Rule One. By Cooper's own statement (Cooper's Commentaries, vol. 6 no. 2) -

RULE 1
ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

The only exception to this occurs when one has a weapon in his hands and he has personally unloaded it for checking. As soon as he puts it down, Rule 1 applies again.


Many advocates of the Four Rules like to pretend he didn't say this, as it makes the "Always" so much easier to teach. But, without the exception, there isn't a logical transition to cleaning, etc.

I've actually had someone chide me for pointing a disassembled barrel at myself while cleaning. IMO, this is the Four Rules gone mad.

Cooper's Four Rules are simply the opposite approach from the old NRA approach. The NRA used to teach "keep all guns unloaded until ready to shoot", which was fine for range shooting. Shooters learned guns were, generally, unloaded.

Cooper ran into trouble with a hot range environment. He flipped it around and taught, essentially, "all guns are assumed to be loaded, unless you are cleaning them". Under Cooper, shooters learned guns were, generally, loaded.

Almost everyone agrees the Four Rules are safer. But there seems to be quite a bit of confusion about transitioning to unloaded status and what that now permits.
 
pax posted
If you are checking the gun and then dry firing without a safe direction, you are not following the safety rules all the time. You and Dakota both made it plain that you dry fire without having a safe backstop. That means that both of you have developed a physical habit of not following the four rules. Specifically, every time either of you dry fire without a safe backstop, you violate rules two, three, and four.
You're right. Here I am talking about how safe I am, and yet I admitted in this thread to breaking safety rules.

I hate living in an apartment. At my old house I had a much better dry-fire area with a safe backstop. Now all I have is a stack of books which, while they will technically stop a 9mm bullet, doesn't actually count as a safe backstop. Before dry-firing, I clear the firearm, put all ammo and mags in a separate room, and check the chamber a few extra times before beginning practice.

I guess I'm being compulsive because I know I'm breaking safety rules by dry-firing in my apartment. And maybe that's why I hate dry-firing so much since I moved here. And I guess it took an Internet forum to convince me to stop doing something I already knew was unsafe according to the safety rules. I'll admit that dry-firing in an apartment is not a safe practice. Yet another reason that I need to hurry up and get that home loan approved....

Dmazur, I concede your point about being compulsive. I still think you took a few things I said out of context, but you were 100% right when you talked about following ALL safety rules, something I was obviously not doing when I was dry-firing in my apartment.

EDIT:

dmazur posted
Sorry for misunderstanding.
No need; while you may have misunderstood a few things I said, you and Pax helped me figure out why I feel a need to be compulsive sometimes. I can promise you that dry-firing is out until I move into a house.
 
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Dakota,

I would accept that as a safe backstop. It is a little safer if you choose the base of the corner where wall and floor come together, and safer still if you reinforce it in some way (Such as by putting something solid in front of it).

Theo,

I would also accept a big stack of books as a safe backstop. From your earlier description, it sounded as if you were just using an ordinary interior wall, without somehow reinforcing it.

These days, there's almost no reason to dry fire a functional gun anyway. For less than a $20 bill, you can pick up a Barrel Blocker from Train.safe.us or a Training Barrel from Blade Tech. Either of those products will disable your firearm, rendering it safe for dry fire.

Pax
 
Onward Allusion,

That works, right up until your ejector breaks and you don't realize it. Then it is not so good. Really much better to check by sight and then by feel.

pax
 
pax posted
I would also accept a big stack of books as a safe backstop. From your earlier description, it sounded as if you were just using an ordinary interior wall, without somehow reinforcing it.
It's a rather small area, and it definitely makes me uncomfortable. And if I ever actually fired a round at the books and missed, there would be big problems. And even if I never missed, I can't imagine none of my neighbors would hear the shot. That could be very problematic.

No, I think it's actually not a safe practice. I need to get a training barrel like you suggested.
 
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